On kernel mailing list behavior [LWN.net]

On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 17, 2013 18:14 UTC (Wed) by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
In reply to: On kernel mailing list behavior by b7j0c
Parent article: On kernel mailing list behavior

I have no major problem whatsoever with people telling me that my code sucks *censored* through heavily-clogged straws. I can deal.

I do have a major problem with people telling me that *I* did that when I wrote my code, much less insinuating that I do it habitually.

The line can be blurry at times. It certainly depends on the recipient's cultural background. Professional courtesy requires erring on the side of caution.

I stopped participating in Debian discussions umpteen years ago, not because I couldn't take it, but because I didn't want to subject myself to the kind of abrasive language that was then common there. (Things have since improved, though I refuse to quantify.)

The bottom line is that the kernel community (a) does get older and (b) is not especially diverse. IMHO, if we don't want to have major problems in ten years because maintainers are leaving for age and/or burn-out reasons, we need to increase the appeal of participating *now*.

Of course, a Code of Conduct by itself will not by itself increase the appeal of kernel programming to people who are not western, white, and male. But it cannot exactly hurt either.

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On kernel mailing list behavior

Posted Jul 17, 2013 19:00 UTC (Wed) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (1 responses)

> increase the appeal of kernel programming to people who are not western, white, and male. But it cannot exactly hurt either.

I actually think that this is a corollary to the main point, the abusive behavior is what is in question and it is not something that is discriminatorily directed at non-western, non-white, non-male developers on LKML. A scaling back of the abuse will make LKML more welcoming to all professional developers, including those who are not western, white and male, but especially those who don't feel the need to tolerate others abusive bullshit.

On skin thickness

Posted Jul 18, 2013 3:44 UTC (Thu) by zblaxell (subscriber, #26385) [Link]

Indeed.

Some western, white, male, professional, etc. people have to subscribe to LKML and interact with developers there in order to be verbally abused. Other people get their quota of abuse from non-LKML sources without making any special effort to receive it.

Abuse is not discriminatorily directed at these various groups, but is discriminatorily received by them.

There also seems to be some warped social status exchange going on. In a group it's usually a privilege to have an elite's attention at all, and if that attention leads to a response in public so much the better. Getting an emotional and memorable response (i.e. an abusive one) from an elite elevates the recipient's status among members of the group--but only members of the group that understand the structure of this interaction will see it this way. Outsiders see only one stranger hurling public abuse at another for no apparent reason.