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A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 10, 2013 21:05 UTC (Fri) by rcweir (guest, #48888)
In reply to: Results of the Apache OpenOffice 4.0 Logo Survey by f.lasseter
Parent article: Results of the Apache OpenOffice 4.0 Logo Survey

Microsoft wishes we'd go away as well. I've seen more of their anti-OpenOffice videos and whitepapers lately. But none at all against LibreOffice. Interesting.

I'll be charitable and assume this is entirely because OpenOffice is (in their estimation) the more credible threat to their market position, and that this has nothing to do with Microsoft's longstanding partnership with the primary corporate sponsor of LibreOffice, with whom they have a long-standing alliance.


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See them coming

Posted May 10, 2013 22:47 UTC (Fri) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

Your innuendo somehow comes out as funny rather than menacing. I have no idea about who is the primary corporate sponsor of LibreOffice, nor do I care much, but if you think Microsoft rewards longstanding partners or allies with anything but land grabs then you are much mistaken. As an IBMer you should know better.

The truth is that Microsoft does not fight against projects but brands. OpenOffice has the brand (not thanks to Apache but to the long years of Sun development), LibreOffice has the momentum. In a few decades Microsoft will notice and start fighting against LibreOffice, just as at a certain point they switched focus from Unix to Linux -- presumably when their customers started using it in anger. They are getting older and slower so this time it will probably take them longer to notice the new project.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 3:01 UTC (Sat) by keithcu (guest, #58738) [Link]

Microsoft doesn't think OpenOffice is the bigger threat than LibreOffice, only the more well-known brand. I just talked to someone in Office who hadn't even heard of LibreOffice.

Microsoft would love to have Apache continue to squander the OpenOffice brand: http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=3163

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 11:20 UTC (Sat) by rcweir (guest, #48888) [Link]

It is always fun to hear from the free software cult, where juvenile males give us names like the Gimp and LibreOffice, and then have them complain about poor brand recognition.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 12:01 UTC (Sat) by sumC (guest, #1262) [Link]

Are you seriously insulting the same people that you just now are asking for help in selecting your next logo? Jesus...

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 12:18 UTC (Sat) by rcweir (guest, #48888) [Link]

Not at all. One of the points of the survey was to escape the echo-chamber of the FLOSS community and get feedback from the broader user community, the vast majority of whom run Windows and would have better chances naming the president of Kazakhstan than placing the name Richard Stallman.

So I'm not specifically looking for comments from Lwn.net readers. And from what I've seen so far, Lwn.net readers are not very interested in giving feedback on the logos. Or at least I haven't seen logo comments in this thread yet. However, on our blog post we've received 30 so far:

https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/results_of_apache_open...

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 14:07 UTC (Sat) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

I'm reasonably sure that most people involved in free software are by this point old enough that 'juvenile male' does not apply. We're aging...

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 22:16 UTC (Sat) by keithcu (guest, #58738) [Link]

Rob is the juvenile male who refuses to admit he made a mistake in creating the fork.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 22:55 UTC (Sat) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

Honestly, I think that's enough name-calling for one thread, OK? There are some serious issues being discussed here; this kind of stuff doesn't help. Can we stop?

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 12, 2013 3:16 UTC (Sun) by keithcu (guest, #58738) [Link]

I will try to do better. But to be clear: Rob had accused the free software community of being a cult filled with juvenile males, and I was pointing out that it is juvenile to ignore inconvenient facts as IMO he is doing. It is hard not to name-call back when someone is guilty of what they accuse others of.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 22:17 UTC (Sat) by keithcu (guest, #58738) [Link]

It is incorrect to blame the poor brand recognition of LibreOffice on the name. What about Nissan -- is that a good name? Why is it everyone knows that word even though it sounds kind of weird? It is hard to build a brand. You are pretty effing stupid if you don't even know that. The brand you are squandering has been built up over many years by many people.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 22:47 UTC (Sat) by rcweir (guest, #48888) [Link]

No one said it was easy. LO made a lot of choices that made it difficult for them. By insisting on having their own foundation rather than joining one the several existing ones (Mozilla, Apache, Eclipse, etc.) they've diluted their efforts enormously. I see good engineers wasting time interviewing tax advisors, worrying about servers, or fundraising. It is a shame, really.

But that was their choice. They should make the most of it rather than complain. Or, if they really their position is untenable without the OpenOffice brand, then they should talk to Apache and see what can be worked out to end the fork.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 12, 2013 1:50 UTC (Sun) by keithcu (guest, #58738) [Link]

Creating a foundation is easy compared to the difficulty of building a positive worldwide image around a name, and repairing and sustaining a community around a big piece of software. The fact that you would casually make a comparison between tasks of many different orders of magnitude of work shows dangerous ignorance.

Furthermore, do you know of a community that doesn't worry about servers or fundraising?

I've noticed that most of the volunteers who signed up with you when this plan started (like Eric from OOO4Kids) are no longer contributing. You are unintentionally poisoning the volunteer community and "stealing" away people who would be happier in LibreOffice. Most people joining AOO have no idea that the LibreOffice code, tools, license, people, vibe, etc. is better over there.

Rob, you accused me of being in a cult, but you are the one running one. It is only that you are able to recruit uinformed new people at the pace you can that you have anything more than 15 paid confused "volunteers" working on your codebase. You also bad-mouth LibreOffice periodically to prevent anyone from being interested in learning more, and tell half-truths and propaganda to keep members in.

How many know that LibreOffice 4.0 already has countless features that AOO 4.0 will not? Why don't you post that list to your aliases and see what happens? Do they know why LibreOffice's Geritt is better than what you have? Do they know many consider you a bully? Here's one statement about it by a commenter on my blog: http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=3163#comment-53335. I can quickly find you others than one from my blog if you want. There are a lot of people inside AOO who don't know things the rest of us do, which is a characteristic of cults.

Of course, your money could be very useful to them. And your full-time dev resources, and your trademark, and your URL. You (currently) have negative worth, but it is possible to usefully combine the other resources. Suppose it came from down on high at IBM that you should end the fork. Could you implement it? Have you made a contingency plan? Sometimes you need to jump out of an airplane, so it can be helpful to become familiar with a parachute.

IMO, you need to realize you made a mistake 2 years ago. Many people complained at that time, but you didn't listen or fix your plan. Many are waiting for you, in hopes you one day can look at the predictions and the facts in a new way. You seem to be waiting for LibreOffice to approach you to end the fork, when you already have the power to do it.

LibreOffice's position isn't untenable without the OpenOffice brand. It would just be very useful to them, and you are the person most responsible today for letting it waste away, and forcing the community to pointlessly build up a new one. Don't put those accomplishments on your resume!

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 12, 2013 2:05 UTC (Sun) by rcweir (guest, #48888) [Link]

Keith, nice trolling. But the topic of the article is the logo-selection process for Apache OpenOffice project. Do you have any questions or comments on that?

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 12, 2013 2:47 UTC (Sun) by keithcu (guest, #58738) [Link]

If you go and re-read the comment I was replying to, written by you, you'll see that what you wrote has nothing to do with the logo selection process.

Juvenile in what sense?

Posted May 12, 2013 11:56 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

It is always fun to hear from the free software cult, where juvenile males give us names like the Gimp and LibreOffice, and then have them complain about poor brand recognition.
I don't see that playful names have seriously hurt adoption of Linux (named after its definitely juvenile developer), git (not so juvenile developer but definitely stupid name), Red Hat (named for the hat of its founder), or for that matter Apache (play on "a-patchy server").

On the other hand, I can't see anything juvenile in LibreOffice, just an office suite which is free (libre in Spanish and French). Care to elaborate?

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 11, 2013 4:41 UTC (Sat) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

I'll be charitable and assume this is entirely because OpenOffice is (in their estimation) the more credible threat to their market position, and that this has nothing to do with Microsoft's longstanding partnership with the primary corporate sponsor of LibreOffice, with whom they have a long-standing alliance.

Thanks for letting us know where you come from. And with that sort of attitude, good luck persuading any LibreOffice users to switch.

A prayer from your mouth to Ballmers's ears

Posted May 12, 2013 12:53 UTC (Sun) by jubal (subscriber, #67202) [Link]

Mr. Weir is probably the best involuntary advocate for the LibreOffice, didn't you know that?


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