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Fedora 19 Alpha released

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 1:28 UTC (Wed) by tetley80 (guest, #88691)
In reply to: Fedora 19 Alpha released by dowdle
Parent article: Fedora 19 Alpha released

The current relative stability is only temporary. Red Hat is busy making RHEL 7, with Fedora 18 and 19 as the "upstream". As such, it's in RH's interest to minimize breakage at this point in time. However, based on previous patterns with RHEL 5 and 6, as soon as F19 is released, Rawhide and F20+ are going to have far riskier changes. This almost invariably leads to instability.

A likely big change on the horizon is the deprecation of the X server in favor of Wayland, with all the associated fun and random breakage. This is likely to have parallels with all the PulseAudio fun we had a while back.


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Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 2:38 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

" Red Hat is busy making RHEL 7, with Fedora 18 and 19 as the "upstream""

Red Hat has said Fedora 18 will be the basis for EL 7 but nothing about 19.

http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Red-Hat-s-RHEL-7-ro...

You appear to just including Fedora 19 as part of this without any basis for doing so.

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 4:58 UTC (Wed) by tetley80 (guest, #88691) [Link]

Come on. RH is not silly to use Gnome 3.6 as the default user interface for RHEL 7. It will have a lot of displeased customers otherwise, given how polarising Gnome versions 3.0 through to 3.6 have been. At this stage it's fairly safe to say that Gnome 3.8 with the classic mode would be used in RHEL 7, which is part of F19.

Searching through RH's Bugzilla suggests that other F19 components will land in RHEL 7. To wit, here and here.

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 6:43 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

Sure. Some components get updates even from rawhide but the release itself is still primarily f 18 and going by your logic f18 should have been more stable than prior releases

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 17:08 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

> Come on. RH is not silly to use Gnome 3.6 as the default user interface for RHEL 7.

While it's likely that you are right it's not kosher to present rampant speculation as solid fact. There are people here that actually really do know this stuff and can have the ability to tell use one way or the other what is really going on.

So things like 'I think' 'I feel that' or 'It seems like' 'I don't know for sure, but' are useful for when you want to indicate that you are speculating.

I'm guilty of this sort of thing more then most people, but I am trying.

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 11:29 UTC (Wed) by hadrons123 (guest, #72126) [Link]

I have been highly vocal about rawhide not being usable previously, But my recent experiences have been very good to suggest people to use rawhide and help in the Linux development. Yes I can see that wayland is coming very quickly and its a good thing that most of the components are backwards compatible too. But what is the fun if you don't break your OS once in a while.

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 13:50 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

The biggest breakers I see in the future are going to be systemd --user and Wayland. I'm sure someone else will come up with something here soon though. Two revolutions in Fedora a cycle isn't enough after a stable *alpha*. I'm trying to ride ahead of the systemd --user wave, but things may catch up. As for Wayland, XMonad is going to be awfully hard to give up in the interim…

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 17:15 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

It would be interesting to see how much of 'tiling' can be applied to Gnome-shell.

Right now I am using 'put windows' extension which adds some tiling features to Gnome-shell. This may be properly termed 'weak tiling' since positioning and tiling something you have to apply to windows manually rather then having strict tiling enforced like with Xmonad. (I actually prefer this as I only really desire to have tiling on some applications and depending on what I am doing). I have a feeling that you wouldn't find this acceptable, but I am curious how far gnome-shell could be pushed.

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 24, 2013 18:58 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

My requirements are that each monitor must be distinct (not one desktop spanning all of the monitors) and I don't think I've seen any of the mainstream WMs even consider this setup. It does require use of quite a few modifier combinations (ctrl, ctrl+shift, meta, meta+shift, alt, alt+shift, ctrl+meta, ctrl+meta+shift, alt+meta, and alt+meta+shift with F keys (absolute) and arrows (relative) are all used to manage this; I use 7 of these modifier prefixes regularly with my 3 screen setup) to handle all of the ways to manipulate windows between the monitors and workspaces which I doubt gnome-shell will support. Plus, I like my 1 px decorations (no close button required and maximize/minimize are pretty useless with tiling). As for conditional tiling, I have bindings which allow me to toggle whether new windows are floating or not (one shot and all future) for those apps that are better that way (typically mplayer for me).

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 26, 2013 13:51 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

Your needs are vastly different from many others who just go with the flow and want something that obeys "normal" UI conventions. I wish you best of luck in maintaining your custom workflow but I imagine that those capabilities extract a non-zero cost in design and maintenance that has a negative effect on everyone else who uses the graphics stack. I could be wrong about your specific needs but certainly the X designers have spoken about this topic at some length.

Fedora 19 Alpha released

Posted Apr 26, 2013 14:52 UTC (Fri) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

How do those features leverage some special about the graphics *stack*? The monitor behavior is basically "give me monitor borders, not one single canvas" (games will likely need this) and the decorations is "allow me to suppress CSDs" which KDE is expected to require anyways. The only real problem is that I won't get my specific features from Weston, KWin, or Shell, but that was expected.

The apps I'll need to replace (directly) are setxkbmap, xsetroot, xset, xrdb, xcompose, clock, xautolock (all of which should have equivalents in Wayland), xmobar, xmonad, feh (backgrounds), sxiv (image viewer), and dmenu. The others that I use are all using toolkits which should have Wayland backends. The largest application here that will need to be written is "WMonad".


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