The VP8 wars heat up ... again [LWN.net]

The VP8 wars heat up ... again

Posted Apr 8, 2013 7:23 UTC (Mon) by dvdeug (guest, #10998)
In reply to: The VP8 wars heat up ... again by giraffedata
Parent article: The VP8 wars heat up ... again

It is experimentation; after many, many years of buying electrical appliances, I know they invariably fit my plugs. If we were following logic, we might likewise assume that washers and driers plugged into standard plugs (they often need 220v), or that portable electronic tools had some sort of standard charger plug (hah!).

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The VP8 wars heat up ... again

Posted Apr 8, 2013 17:56 UTC (Mon) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (4 responses)

I suppose it's possible you reason out whether to buy a coffee maker that way ("Every time I've bought an appliance before, it had a standard plug, so I'll assume it's always that way"), but I suspect most people who think to ask the question answer it with a syllogism such as, "this store would not be in business if it sold things people can't use; the store is still in business; etc."). I know that's how I make decisions like that.

Imagine that you've lived in the US all your life and then move to the UK. All the evidence you have is that stores sell appliances with North American plugs. So do you assume a UK store does too? Do you do demand evidence to the contrary before you'll risk buying a coffee maker you can't use? Or do you take the risk based only on a logical deduction that suggests UK stores sell coffee makers that work in UK kitchens?

The VP8 wars heat up ... again

Posted Apr 9, 2013 1:12 UTC (Tue) by dvdeug (guest, #10998) [Link] (3 responses)

"this store would not be in business if it sold things people can't use"

That's not logic; there's a lot of experience and facts behind that. It certainly wasn't true in the Soviet Union, for example. And as per the examples that follow, it's a leap to assume that that means the plugs are compatible.

Why is that I figure that a washer or dryer won't plug into the standard sockets? Why is that I don't figure I can buy an arbitrary charger and expect it to work with my electronic device? Why don't I figure I can buy an arbitrary video game and have it work in my system? Why can't I buy a movie disc and assume that it will work in my DVD player?

If I thought about it in terms of "North American plugs", I'd probably already know what type of plugs the UK uses. I assume, as a First World nation, that the UK is consistent in the type of plugs they use. On the other hand, I bet you should look twice in Hong Kong; are they Chinese plugs or UK plugs? I suspect there's many other places where you should look twice and keep adapters on hand.

The VP8 wars heat up ... again

Posted Apr 9, 2013 2:23 UTC (Tue) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (1 responses)

You're pointing out that all logical conclusions about the real world can be traced back to observations (evidence), and that all conclusions based on evidence are actually an application of logic to that evidence.

So the distinction between believing something based on logic and believing it based on evidence is only a matter of degree of the remoteness of the evidence.

Based on your categorizing the conclusion that a coffee maker will or will not work in a particular kitchen as an evidence-based conclusion, then my conclusion that patents stimulate innovation is also evidence-based, though I originally said it was not. A lifetime of seeing what greed makes people do, of seeing things cost money, of seeing people use other people's inventions, and on and on lead me to that conclusion.

I believe someone said at one point there is "no evidence" that patents stimulate innovation, which I took to refer to more direct evidence, with less logical deduction required, than the above.

The VP8 wars heat up ... again

Posted Apr 9, 2013 6:11 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

Now I'm tempted to go and look for some lawyer community web site. There's a chance they have forums with discussions more interesting than this one :-)

A first world nation is consistent ...

Posted Apr 11, 2013 12:26 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

You haven't been following the Japanese Tsunami then :-)

One of the big problems they had was they have two different electrical standards, and it was one side was mostly wiped out. So they couldn't feed power across the island from the other side because both the volts and the hertz were different.

Cheers,
Wol