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ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 1, 2013 22:19 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: ZFS on Linux 0.6.1 by nim-nim
Parent article: ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

gcj was never really good enough for real-world use. It's slow, has unreliable garbage collector and API coverage was spotty. Even Eclipse (which doesn't depend on AWT or SWING) barely run under it.

Sun JDK actually accessible in source code form since early 2000-s, but with a very restricted license. It was used by Blackdown and other porting efforts, and also licensed by third-party proprietary JDKs like Excelsior JET.


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ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 2, 2013 18:10 UTC (Tue) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

That a complex monster like Eclipse did run under it confirms it was approaching completion. Of course the work was never finished when contributors switched to openjdk en masse, so we'll never know what would have happened otherwise. But the essentials were there, and slowness never stopped gcc adoption over faster (but less agnostic) rivals.

Implying swing support would have mattered at all is laughable, given Java's complete failure story on the desktop (ironically Eclipse and derivatives is probably the most used GUI java app righ now, and as you pointed out is does not use swing). Swing is useless server-side, and IIRC Google stole SUN's mobile lunch without bothering with it either.

ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 2, 2013 18:16 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

Eclipse itself doesn't really use a lot of fancy JVM features. So getting it to run was great, but it did not validate the completeness of gcj even closely.

For instance, it has lots of problems with dynamic bytecode generation. Debugging support was a mess, gc was leaking like crazy and so on. We've tried to use gcj-compiled PDF manipulation library back then and had to run it in a separate process in the end.

Also, SWING is actually quite useful - IntelliJ IDEA family or products uses it quite successfully.

ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 2, 2013 22:01 UTC (Tue) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]

> Swing is useless server-side

I object to that. Swing based configuration tools are very helpful if you run certain database servers remotely.

ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 3, 2013 7:21 UTC (Wed) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

Nothing that could not be done either with Eclipse rcp or a webapp frontend, or a legacy SUN jre dedicated to the gui app (till its rewritten).

As Adobe discovered to their grief, the market has no qualms dumping one presentation layer tech for another, as long as the affected apps are not heavy-duty end-user-oriented monsters like Microsoft Office.

ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 3, 2013 8:00 UTC (Wed) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]

> Nothing that could not be done either with Eclipse rcp

Sure, but what is the ratio of Swing vs RCP developers? I guess it's very favorable to Swing.

> or a webapp frontend

We are talking about installation and set up tools. A webapp requires the software to be already installed and configured, so they are not a viable option.

You could have argued in favor of a text based tool, but if what you want is remote cross-platform gui, Swing + X11 is still the way to go.

ZFS on Linux 0.6.1

Posted Apr 3, 2013 8:48 UTC (Wed) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

>> Nothing that could not be done either with Eclipse rcp

> Sure, but what is the ratio of Swing vs RCP developers? I guess it's very > favorable to Swing.

I wouldn't guess any way, Swing is one of the technologies SUN overhyped despite lackluster adoption. In fact getting rid of all the parts SUN added to the JVM to spur adoption, despite lack of market interest, worked for Android and would have worked for gcj too.

>> or a webapp frontend

> We are talking about installation and set up tools. A webapp requires
> the software to be already installed and configured, so they are not a
> viable option.

A web app does not need intrisically more configuration than a gui app, esp if you have it listen to localhost on a specific port (like cups did) at fist.
Sure it's not pretty but none of those java setups tools are particularly pretty either.

You could have argued in favor of a text based tool, but if what you want is remote cross-platform gui, Swing + X11 is still the way to go.


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