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Goodbye, duct tape

Goodbye, duct tape

Posted Feb 12, 2013 2:31 UTC (Tue) by wahern (subscriber, #37304)
In reply to: Goodbye, duct tape by man_ls
Parent article: Chromatic: Goodnight, Parrot

I think you're unintentionally conflating the JVM with the JDK.

A nice JVM is It's not the gargantuan, unportable mess that other JVMs are, which typically aim for speed first and sanity later.

Something like JamVM should also be quick to start up, too. But I completely agree that common JVMs suck for general scripting tasks. Solaris, I believe, tries to optimize this by sharing JVM instances. But "scripts" which require the JVM are still dog-slow.

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Goodbye, duct tape

Posted Feb 12, 2013 2:33 UTC (Tue) by wahern (subscriber, #37304) [Link]

It begs the question, though, whether Perl6 on the JVM will require the JDK.

Goodbye, duct tape

Posted Feb 12, 2013 11:37 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

That is a very good point; it may address the speed and memory issues. It is not a very active project though; last release was in January 2010. But my argument as to "proprietariness" remains similar: the official JVM is proprietary and heavily patented by lawsuit-happy Oracle, which has sued other implementors (Google). If I had to take the decision to port to the JVM I would not take it lightly.

Goodbye, duct tape

Posted Feb 12, 2013 14:00 UTC (Tue) by raiph (guest, #89283) [Link]

Porting to the JVM is a pragmatic short term call not a strategic long term one.

As jnthn recently said:

"The way Perl 6 progresses in terms of its language design is thanks to people using the bits of it that are implemented so far and providing feedback. While a great deal of the language spec is now very stable, that has come after a great deal of feedback. We’ve some areas where we’ve not been able to build and try out certain things on Parrot, a big one being concurrency. Parrot lacked any kind of threads for years, and what it has now is not a great basis for building much on, sadly. That still leaves aside async operations, which should be considered in with all of this. Meanwhile, the JVM can offer well tested, widely used, battle-hardened building blocks for looking into these things, which will allow us to focus on the Perl 6 aspects of things without having to worry (much) about hitting VM bugs."

Once the JVM port is done I've no doubt that ports to other backends will start landing, and I've no doubt most will be non-proprietary.

Goodbye, duct tape

Posted Feb 13, 2013 19:34 UTC (Wed) by wahern (subscriber, #37304) [Link]

I believe the reason it hasn't had a recent release is because it's feature complete and stable. It's not stagnant, just a well executed project.

However, it implements an older spec of the JVM, v2 instead of "Java SE 7 Edition" (i.e. v3). But if you just want a nice, portable JVM, it's a good target, or at least a good place to start.

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