User: Password:
|
|
Subscribe / Log in / New account

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 4, 2013 0:55 UTC (Mon) by duffy (guest, #31787)
In reply to: 25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women by shmget
Parent article: 25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

> No that is irrelevant... just because woman can easily get _a_ golf
> course membership somewhere, does not means that Augusta is not
> discriminating against women.

I'm seriously missing the reference here, sorry.

> I would suggest you establish the ratio of student of computer science
> programs, based on their primary motivation for choosing that field.
> There would be 2 main categories: the one that do that because they are > passionate about the field and the one that do that because there is a
> good prospect of career, better than architect or Mechanical Engineering > or any other field that they would have been capable of graduating from.

So you think the *women* who do study computer science do so because of the prospect of making money after graduating, not for genuine interest in the subject? That's really funny given the 'man must be provider' 'caveman say cavewoman stay home go sweep cave ung ung ung' analogies that have been made.

That being said, yeh, I really don't get your point. I studied computer science at the height of the dotcom boom in the US; the majority of my classmates were male (the gender ratio was more like 10-15% female than < 1% in my program), and the vast majority of women I knew in the program were genuinely interested in the subject, I would say at a much greater rate than the men in the program.

The thing is, if you're interested in something only for the money, and it turns out to be an unpleasant experience (you're one of 10 women in the lecture hall and get stared at like some kind of zoo animal), you've not got much motivation to stay. If you're genuinely interested in a subject, you're much more likely to stick it through regardless of the BS you have to put up. This is why I think a higher proportion of the women in my CS program had that genuine interest than the men.

Although this is all conjecture based on anecdotal evidence, of course.

> all these tend to indicate that open-source communities are actually less likely to discriminate based on gender than the general population.

You may have convinced yourself of this quite well, but my personal experience as well as the experience of many of my female colleagues begs to differ. Do you think we're lying?

> "Seriously, go back to the MRA hole you came from"
> Is that supposed to be an example of courteous, friendly atmosphere that one is exhorted to cultivate in open-source project ?
> Just because I disagree whit the notion that two wrongs make a right, you must resort to name-calling ?

I didn't call you a name. I told you to go home.


(Log in to post comments)

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 4, 2013 3:33 UTC (Mon) by shmget (subscriber, #58347) [Link]

"I'm seriously missing the reference here, sorry. "

My mistake, I thought that the reference would have been well known.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/31/business/la-fi-mo...

"So you think the *women* who do study computer science do so because of the prospect of making money after graduating,"

No, I'm saying that among people that do so for that reason, my personal experience is that there is a lower gender gap.

"That's really funny given the 'man must be provider' 'caveman say cavewoman stay home go sweep cave ung ung ung' analogies that have been made."

I have never made such statements nor ever held such views.

"You may have convinced yourself of this quite well, but my personal experience as well as the experience of many of my female colleagues begs to differ. Do you think we're lying?"

Are you saying that Open Source Communities discriminate _more_ than the general population against women ?

"Although this is all conjecture based on anecdotal evidence, of course."
And my own anecdotal evidence is that I have never rejected or seen a patch rejected because the author was presumed to be a woman... Do you think I am lying ?

"I didn't call you a name. I told you to go home."
Case in Point

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 4, 2013 5:13 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

" Are you saying that Open Source Communities discriminate _more_ than the general population against women ?"

Seems so. Compared to the general population, we have even lower % of participation from women and the amount of vitriolic attacks against women seem to be rather high including groping etc in open source conference, death threats via email and so on. More public exposure doesn't account for all of that.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 15:15 UTC (Tue) by duffy (guest, #31787) [Link]

> "You may have convinced yourself of this quite well, but my personal
> experience as well as the experience of many of my female colleagues begs > to differ. Do you think we're lying?"

> Are you saying that Open Source Communities discriminate _more_ than the
> general population against women ?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The male:female ratio in the industry is much better than in open source. The male:female ratio in my computer science program and many others is much better than in open source.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 15:44 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Seconded. When I worked in the proprietary software industry, about 40% of my fellow developers were women. Find a free software company with similar figures...

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 17:06 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

I was at a Perl conference last year and one of the training companies had a short presentation on this very thing, with similar numbers. Their training classes for Perl were around 40/60 like you've seen in industry but attendance to conferences and participation upstream was more like 5/95. They were trying to advertise and get more people so that conference participation more closely reflected the reality of the community.

I don't think that many people understand how much of an outsider, how uncomfortable and awkward it is to be the one who is obviously different (gender, race, etc.), how that discourages participation and how encouraging people to be role models can make an environment friendlier and encourage participation.


Copyright © 2017, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds