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25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 1, 2013 12:42 UTC (Fri) by ekj (guest, #1524)
In reply to: 25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women by blujay
Parent article: 25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

In a perfect world, perhaps. In the real world, women are told ten-thousand times before they turn 5 that they shouldn't get involved in technology.

If you doubt this, walk into a toystore.

Oddly enough concern-trolls like you only complain if someone, just once, sends even *one* message that says: "Hi, you could get involved in technology!"

If you're trying to balance a ship that's listing seriously to port, you do actually need to add some weight to starboard, you can't re-balance it by adding weight to both sides equally.


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25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 2, 2013 0:47 UTC (Sat) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link]

> In the real world, women are told ten-thousand times before they turn 5 that they shouldn't get involved in technology.

That's just silly. You're not being realistic, you're grossly exaggerating and completely generalizing.

> If you doubt this, walk into a toystore.

So should toys be regulated, then? Should they all be the same color? Should an equal number of boys and girls toys be required to be blue and pink? Should parents be required to paint their nurseries half blue and half pink? You may think I'm being silly, but what is your point?

> Oddly enough concern-trolls like you only complain if someone, just once, sends even *one* message that says: "Hi, you could get involved in technology!"

No! Doing that would be great! The point is that this outreach program is restricted to women! It isn't fair or equal at all!

> If you're trying to balance a ship that's listing seriously to port, you do actually need to add some weight to starboard, you can't re-balance it by adding weight to both sides equally.

As I said earlier, examine your presuppositions. Is the ship listing? Is that a problem? Is it wrong? Can it be fixed? Should it be fixed? Would trying to fix it be fair or create more unfairness?

Who is to say this particular ship is supposed to be level? Maybe it's a sailboat that's leaning into the wind. Maybe it would capsize or go slower if some people tried to level the deck. Maybe no one really knows what it should be.

Maybe it just is.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 2, 2013 2:23 UTC (Sat) by dkg (subscriber, #55359) [Link]

blujay said:
[ekj said:]
> If you doubt this, walk into a toystore.
So should toys be regulated, then? Should they all be the same color? Should an equal number of boys and girls toys be required to be blue and pink? Should parents be required to paint their nurseries half blue and half pink? You may think I'm being silly, but what is your point?
No, what is your point? An overwhelming majority of the toy industry makes decisions about how they're going to deal with their customers and the public based on the genders of the people involved, and you leap to their defense: how dare anyone propose that they're doing something wrong! Or try to change it! The next thing you know, the government will tell you what color to paint your nursery!!!!

But when GNOME (and OpenITP, and Mozilla, and Redhat, and Google, but nothing approaching a majority of the tech industry) make decisions about how to deal with their contributors and the public based on the genders of the people involved, you're the first one to the barricades to shout down the horror of their decisions and argue that it needs to be done differently.

Why are you so eager to critique GNOME and yet so eager to defend the toy companies?

No one here is proposing regulations. People are taking action to make their organizations and communities more inclusive and welcoming to participants who might have previously been driven away by aggressive and self-entitled male assholes. Our community grows, and we get more perspectives, a better range of ideas, and more participants as a result. The folks highlighted in the article are working to make their corner of the world a better place. I salute them for that.

What are you doing to make your corner of the world a better place? Is it working?

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 2, 2013 17:20 UTC (Sat) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]

I couldn't agree more.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 3, 2013 22:02 UTC (Sun) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]

You said in another comment that you've purposely exaggerated in your initial argument. It is therefore pretty poor to complain when someone else does that. Meaning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_b....

Even in this reply, you're exaggerating and being emotional.

You seem to take this outreach program really personal as if it personally affects you. Is that true, and could you explain why?

e.g. "maybe it just is"... right!


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