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Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Posted Jan 29, 2013 21:01 UTC (Tue) by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742)
In reply to: Poettering: The Biggest Myths by HelloWorld
Parent article: Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Yeah, in 2013 all things work in some way automatic, talk with each other using DBUS, and adding abstraction layers where before none were necessary.
I'm running Slackware, which has beautiful simple init scripts. Back in the day, I simply edited my xf86config and entered what video card I have, how my screen looks like, etc, and my system did just that.
I plugged in an audio card, and I had a plain stupid /dev/dsp.
Nowadays I plug stuff together, and hope some magic autodetects it and does what I want it to do.
Yes, we can do more today than 15 years ago, but it has not really become easier to understand and debug.

Alex


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Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Posted Jan 30, 2013 2:58 UTC (Wed) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

>> Back in the day, I simply edited my xf86config

The word "simply" usually means something else, though.

Yes, X11 debugging has become more complex. *shrug* so has X11. But more often than not, these days, auto setup does it all for you and it simply *works*.

Net win, if you ask me.

Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Posted Jan 30, 2013 3:00 UTC (Wed) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link]

Yes, we can do more today than 15 years ago, but it has not really become easier to understand and debug.

To be fair, modelines and working out which RAMDAC you had wasn't particularly easy to understand, or fun. And I am/was an X developer.

Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Posted Jan 30, 2013 16:29 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

But it was a trial by fire! How can we get rid of such exciting trials by fire?

(And if you had an old enough monitor, a *literal* trial by fire, or sparks and smoke anyway.)

I am very glad that this sort of thing Just Works these days, I must say...

Poettering: The Biggest Myths

Posted Jan 31, 2013 10:31 UTC (Thu) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]

you say "beautiful" and "simple" in conjunction with "init scripts". Unless you mean systemd service files (which are indeed simple and beautiful) I think there is something wrong with your English. Bash is a ridiculous solution for describing the behavior of services and if you've ever compared a 100 line bash script with a 5 line systemd file doing the same thing (just faster and more reliable), you'd never claim a shell script to be 'simple' or 'beautiful'.

Same with xf86config - terrible, terrible example. Sjees, how I hated those files. Now, things just work...

Sound card - yeah, it was beautiful - every time you added an audio device you had to reboot and find out what dspX device Linux had decided to give to your headset and build in audio cards this time. Now, with PulseAudio, the device shows up at runtime and once you've configured it once, next time the settings take effect immediately upon plugging in the headset. How is the old method better, again?

Yes, we can do more today than 15 years ago, AND it is MUCH easier to understand. The ways used to adapt sysVinit to enable faster booting and handling of plugging in devices should give a hint to that - terribly complicated to bend a static system so that it can survive in a dynamic world. It's incredibly nobody made a decent replacement of sysV when USB came on the market - it's crazy it took so long!


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