User: Password:
|
|
Subscribe / Log in / New account

Classic mode questions

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 8:54 UTC (Sun) by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
In reply to: Classic mode questions by drago01
Parent article: Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

> 2. No.

See, that in itself, is a major regression.

A perfectly fine, working system of arranging things has been replaced by chance (e.g. whoever loads last gets to be the leftmost, for instance). Also, users cannot use the usual drag/drop to organise their desktop.

Which serious desktop environment doesn't support even the simplest of customisations in 2013? Even the brain dead Windows 8 has the old desktop hidden away somewhere...

Instead of working on Gnome Classic in terms of "here is a set of extensions that will give you look XYZ", the developers should be thinking about "here is a set of tools to make you desktop the way you want it". I know - not the "philosophy" of Gnome...


(Log in to post comments)

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 9:39 UTC (Sun) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715) [Link]

> Instead of working on Gnome Classic in terms of "here is a set of extensions that will give you look XYZ", the developers should be thinking about "here is a set of tools to make you desktop the way you want it". I know - not the "philosophy" of Gnome...

There is a limit on what you can do with configuration. "the way you want" can be very different for many people. Drag and Drop to reorder some elements does only help with one aspect. So in GNOME 3 there is a powerful extension system that lets you change / edit almost anything ... so it allows way more changes that GNOME 2 did to achieve the "the way you want" (for users that for whatever reason don't like the defaults and/or have specific unique needs).

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 11:59 UTC (Sun) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> there is a powerful extension system

Yes, so powerful it _cannot_ help you with reordering of elements, for instance. It also requires fiddling with source code, as it has been pointed out numerous times.

I have an idea. Why don't we just have autoexec.bat and config.sys. That'll fix it. :-)

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 12:03 UTC (Sun) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715) [Link]

> Yes, so powerful it _cannot_ help you with reordering of elements, for instance.

That's plain wrong.
You can write extensions to reorder whatever you want to reorder.

> It also requires fiddling with source code, as it has been pointed out numerous times.

It does not require "fiddling with source code" ... writing code is enough. Or get someone to do that for you.

> I have an idea. Why don't we just have autoexec.bat and config.sys. That'll fix it. :-)

The extension system allows that as well. You can write an extension to read those files and do actions based on their contents. ;)

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 12:25 UTC (Sun) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Out of the subset of desktops users who already have the programming skills to learn a JavaScript extension system for their window manager in any reasonable amount of time, many will not have the time or inclination.

Then there's the remaining set, who even if they had the inclination, couldn't do it in a reasonable amount of time. Further, some significant subset of those will not have the inclination.

Really, it's 2013, and we can't re-order icons with the mouse by default? It's approaching 20 years now since the days of complex config files for window managers were seen as a good thing. And at least back then they were primarily declarative - which didn't require programming skill (things like m4-preprocessed config file systems excepted).

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 29, 2013 0:15 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

Really, it's 2013, and we can't re-order icons with the mouse by default?

Exactly. It's 2013 and that's why we don't reorder icons with mouse. MacOS had the ability to reorder program icons in 1984. MS Office 97 had the ability to drag-n-drop menu items in 1997. But you can not rearrange program icons in iOS 6.1 and menu MS Office 2013!

I'm still not sure if it's good trend or not, but it's not like GNOME is the only program which moves in this direction.

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 29, 2013 8:32 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

To be clear, we're discussing launcher short-cut icons, e.g. on the panel.

In both Android and iOS you have complete freedom to add, re-arrange and remove the short-cut icons on the default / "home" / front screen.

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 29, 2013 16:22 UTC (Tue) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link]

Likewise, in GNOME Shell I can re-arrange and remove the short-cut icons on the dock.

What was your complaint again?

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 29, 2013 16:30 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

What part of the word "panel" was confusing to you?

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 29, 2013 18:31 UTC (Tue) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link]

Sorry, I lost track of the context and forgot you were talking about the new classic mode, rather than stock GNOME Shell (which doesn't have launchers on a panel).

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 30, 2013 7:49 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

The panel in GNOME shell also is lacking an ability to add/remove/re-organise launchers with the mouse. It's not incapable of supporting launchers though...

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 13:29 UTC (Sun) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

You obviously don't even understand the problem. Two extensions cannot arbitrate who's going to be where without knowing about each other or having a central location for config.

The silly suggestion that users should ask someone to write code when they want to move something on their desktop is truly amusing. It does remind of config.sys and autoexec.bat days and ordering of drivers, so they can all fit.

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 15:05 UTC (Sun) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715) [Link]

> You obviously don't even understand the problem. Two extensions cannot arbitrate who's going to be where without knowing about each other or having a central location for config.

A extension can allow reordering using DnD and it can as well write a config file (or use gsettings) to store them. It can also listen for other extensions that get enabled (after it got loaded) and reorder them as well.

Before claiming that others "obviously" don't understand anything please go and read the code you are talking about.

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 22:27 UTC (Sun) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

So, extension A says "I want to be leftmost". Extension B says "I want to be leftmost". Who wins without central configuration? Who decides who's wishes are more important?

Please, look at some of the extensions and how they clash with each other in this way. Without predefined, central configuration, which decides on what goes where with finality, it is not possible to have deterministic behaviour.

Classic mode questions

Posted Jan 27, 2013 23:32 UTC (Sun) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

But, coming back to the original point, which was about (basic) ability to customise. If I remember correctly, the editor of this site used to run a vertical panel, for instance. He cannot do this any more (if what you're saying is true).

So, the Gnome Classic is more like Gnome Classic Ultralite. Just looks like it, but really doesn't do the same thing.


Copyright © 2017, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds