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Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 25, 2013 21:59 UTC (Fri) by tetley80 (guest, #88691)
In reply to: Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark by rahulsundaram
Parent article: Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

    use whatever they prefer and I am working on making those choices available.

So on one hand we have a major UI regression in a component that has worked fine for years, and on the other hand we're being told that this regression doesn't matter because of the many choices we have?

Okay, let's follow this through. Gnome 2 used to be a first class citizen in Fedora. It has been replaced (not "upgraded") by a completely different user interface, known as the Gnome 3 shell. Packages such as Cinnamon are closer to the Gnome 2 UI, yet they're second class citizens (ie. I need to manually install them in F17/F18, or explicitly do a network install in F18). Yes, technically the choices are there, but you need to dig to find them.

Summary: "You liked ABC? Sorry, you can't have it anymore. Here's DEF instead. Oh, you don't like that? Well, we have GHI which is kind of like ABC, but you'll have to find it yourself. Have fun!"

If Fedora is serious about "making choices available", Cinnamon should be elevated to be one of the main options (in the installer) for the user interface, while also being present on the _default_ installation media. None of this separate "spin" nonsense.

While this might be a workable solution, it's also a type of bug fix. It would be far more productive to prevent these kind of UI interface regressions in the future.


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Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 25, 2013 22:12 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

You can easily install MATE which you claimed is equivalent to GNOME 2 so "ABC" is available just fine and no digging requires since is well advertised and widely documented.

sudo yum install @mate-desktop

The "default" download is a live image cannot hold all the different desktop environments due to size constraints and this is the reason we have multiple options at http://spins.fedoraproject.org. I am not sure what more you want honestly. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it.

Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 25, 2013 23:03 UTC (Fri) by tetley80 (guest, #88691) [Link]

    The "default" download is a live image cannot hold all the different desktop environments due to size constraints and this is the reason we have multiple options at ...

The discussion started off about Cinnamon being the default UI for Fedora, so let's not fuzzify the issue by stating that the MATE desktop takes up too much space.

Given all the pain about the Gnome 3 UI, Cinnamon provides a more traditional user interface, while still using Gnome 3 components. Cinnamon should be a first class citizen in Fedora (along with Gnome 3), and be on the default install media, not relegated to a separate spin. In contrast to MATE, Cinnamon requires relatively little space. It can be considered as an addon to Gnome 3, not a replacement like MATE.

This discussion is starting to go around in circles, so I'll leave it here.

Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 26, 2013 1:22 UTC (Sat) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

I bought up MATE because you claimed that the equivalent doesn't exist and Fedora isn't providing the choices when it is demonstrably clear that there are multiple alternatives to suit everyone's personal preferences. I don't see why a single yum install cinnamon/ gnome-classic-session in Fedora 19 or the gui equivalent of checking a tick-box is that hard for anyone. You seem to want to insert your personal preference into the default image as an addition and claim that even a different image with your personal preference as a default isn't sufficient and I don't think you have provided any realistic justification for that.

Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 27, 2013 13:06 UTC (Sun) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link]

> You seem to want to insert your personal preference

Sorry for this bit of judgementality, but I used to regard you as
one of the more reasonable fellows.

The "personal" preference sticker you slap on tetley80's words
is actually being attached to the collective perception of an awfully
significant audience.

Tread carefully -- the project you represent can handle only so much self-inflicted alienation.

Listen.. Can you hear it? The sound of mindshare going away?

Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 27, 2013 15:06 UTC (Sun) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]

Clasen: GNOME 3.7 at the halfway mark

Posted Jan 27, 2013 15:06 UTC (Sun) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

I just represent myself and "personal preference" is a very neutral word. Like I said, you might not like something and that's fine but claiming that choices aren't available unless it is in the default image is hardly reasonable.


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