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Mmm

Mmm

Posted Dec 17, 2012 8:51 UTC (Mon) by renox (subscriber, #23785)
In reply to: Mmm by bronson
Parent article: Haiku edges toward general release

> Hm, I thought that was pretty clear. Maybe this helps? http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhatIsRefactoring

Bleah, this page is a mess, the perfect example of a wiki gone wrong.

> I don't think you'll find anyone claiming Plan9 is a refactored Unix. It's always been a proud start-from-scratch effort.

Bah who cares about the implementation details, it is still considered to be the "successor" of Unix as it takes the same concepts but goes further with those concepts.

> My lament is that, at this point, Plan9 is dead in the water and its team members are using Unix in their day jobs again. If it had followed a longer, more conservative schedule, maybe starting from a working Unix base, it might have seen more success.

Maybe, but note that Plan9 stayed proprietary during a long time even when there were Free implementations of Unix..


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Mmm

Posted Dec 17, 2012 11:33 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]

> Bleah, this page is a mess, the perfect example of a wiki gone wrong.

The argument here is: Plan9 is NOT a refactoring of Unix because, in the words of Martin Fowler, "Refactoring is the process of changing a software system in such a way that it does not alter the external behavior of the code yet improves its internal structure."

The original phrase from bronson was: "It was a rewrite suffering serious second system syndrome." (referring, obviously, to Plan9). Going by stages:
it IS a rewrite of Unix, and if you define second-system syndrome as "the tendency of small, elegant, and successful systems to have elephantine, feature-laden monstrosities as their successors", then Plan9 /could/ be construed as having this, altough I think it was more of an hyperbole than a factual statement.

IMHO Plan9 is quite elegant itself (but I *do* think Limbo is a monstrosity /per se/), and I agree with you that it did not lose momentum because of featuritis or other stuff, but because it stayed close where other unixen opened up.

Mmm

Posted Dec 17, 2012 12:58 UTC (Mon) by renox (subscriber, #23785) [Link]

> but I *do* think Limbo is a monstrosity /per se/

Uh why? I like it very much.
I'm not alone as Go has some success and it is very similar to Limbo..

Mmm

Posted Dec 17, 2012 14:51 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]

> Uh why? I like it very much.

And I respect your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.

> I'm not alone as Go has some success and it is very similar to Limbo..

Don't even get me started on Go... (hint: WHY OH $DEITY WHY) :-D

Seriously, both languages are "C on steroids". Full of shorthands, but none of the shorthands *I* would use. IOW, poorly-Huffmann-encoded for me. YMMV.

Mmm

Posted Dec 17, 2012 18:05 UTC (Mon) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

My "second system" statement was clumsy... I meant it in the "attempt all the things you did not get to do last time" sense. I forgot about the "neutron star of features" definition.


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