Ubuntu on the Nexus 7 [LWN.net]

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 8:34 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Ubuntu on the Nexus 7 by rsidd
Parent article: Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Microsoft of all people seems to have figured out that many people would want a tablet that is usable as a laptop.

Not really. What Microsoft does... This is typical reaction of an incumbent to a disruptive technology: Microsoft (as well as many others) fully understand that some time in the future tablets with attached keyboards and/or docks will replace laptops. And thus Microsoft created and tries to push said hybrid. The problem? Tablets are not ready yet! Sure, in a few years when problems with said hybrids will be ironed out Microsoft solution will be as attractive as Android solution or iOS solution, but till that happens it'll be poor tablet and poor laptop replacement (look on Surface reviews!).

The exact same story already happened with Meego/Maemo/Sailfish/Whatever-it's-called-today and Blackberry. Nokia and RIM have understood that eventually mobile phones will be replaced with a smartphones, but they wanted the phone which is good as a phone (works few days without recharge, has physical buttons for easy use as a phone, etc) and good as a smartphone, too (have some apps, can run many of them simultaneously, etc). As a result they created the things which were problematic when used as a phone and also not great when used as a smartphone. We observe the result, isn't it?

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Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 9:04 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (8 responses)

OK, I have my own opinion about that. I have never used a Blackberry but they were clearly brilliant at what they did. I have a Nokia E63 with a qwerty keyboard, which I switched back to recently after a few months of android. For texting and e-mail, it's absolutely outstanding. For web browsing, too, it is adequate. Steve Jobs with his reality distortion field convinced the world they don't need physical keypads. He was wrong and they are wrong. Samsung has already successfully brought back the stylus (the Galaxy Note lineup is an astonishing hit and now other manufacturers are following suit, including Microsoft), and I am hoping there are more and better phones in the future that have Blackberry-quality or Nokia-quality qwerty keypads.

Back to tablet-laptop hybrids -- it depends what you use the laptop for. What we already have on the market (Android tablets or iPads with 3rd-party keyboard-cases) is already very useful to many people. Here in India I see many field workers carrying around cheap ($150) 7" android tablets in cheap ($10) USB keyboard cases, as an alternative to laptops. Much lighter, the battery lasts all day, there's internet everywhere via 3G or GPRS, and what comparable product can you get for $160? It makes a huge amount of sense for these people, who only need e-mail and a web browser. If you could also have productivity software, it would make sense to many more people. With Windows RT, you can have office software that's, if not the same as the "full" (Windows 8) version, at least "good enough". So I do think it is going to be very attractive to many people. And with Android, you can do it under a linux chroot (I do) but the manufacturers are missing a serious trick by not pushing this hard enough or pre-configuring it to make it easy for users. Or maybe they think QuickOffice and such things are "good enough".

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 16:47 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (7 responses)

Steve Jobs with his reality distortion field convinced the world they don't need physical keypads. He was wrong and they are wrong.

I doubt it. I had couple of Android phones with keyboards but my last one lacks it: it's just does not add enough value. Sure, for some rare users they may be a boon, but for vast majority of users they are not needed or only needed occasionally. After all most early models of Android phones had a keyboard - but people stopped buying them en masse.

What we already have on the market (Android tablets or iPads with 3rd-party keyboard-cases) is already very useful to many people. Here in India I see many field workers carrying around cheap ($150) 7" android tablets in cheap ($10) USB keyboard cases, as an alternative to laptops.

Right. But ask yourself: why they are using Android-based tablets and not Ubuntu-based tablets? Answer is obvious: they still want tablets. With optional, used on special occasions only, keyboard.

Keyboard may be useful for texting or e-mail, but for many other uses they are not necessary and you need large screen instead (book reading, web browsing, etc). In many cases sliding keyboard will be awkward.

Sure, for some people Blackberry is "enough", but the fact that RIM is dying shows that such niche is just not big enough.

If you could also have productivity software, it would make sense to many more people. With Windows RT, you can have office software that's, if not the same as the "full" (Windows 8) version, at least "good enough". So I do think it is going to be very attractive to many people.

It'll be superattractive and will get fantastic reviews in press, but there will be no sales for a few more years at least. And you said why yourself:

Much lighter, the battery lasts all day, there's internet everywhere via 3G or GPRS, and what comparable product can you get for $160?

Windows RT is unwieldy (by tablet standards!) and, most of all, expensive. Microsoft Surface is fragile and too large. Are these problems unfixable? Of course not! They are obviously fixable - but while Microsoft is fixing them Android vendors and developers are not sleeping, too.

But the striking difference is that Android vendors are selling stuff and people are learning to use Android while Windows RT is stalling.

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 17:14 UTC (Wed) by k3ninho (subscriber, #50375) [Link] (6 responses)

>>Steve Jobs with his reality distortion field convinced the world they don't need physical keypads. He was wrong and they are wrong.
>I doubt it. I had couple of Android phones with keyboards but my last one lacks it: it's just does not add enough value. Sure, for some rare users they may be a boon, but for vast majority of users they are not needed or only needed occasionally. After all most early models of Android phones had a keyboard - but people stopped buying them en masse.

The Android developer previews originally had keyboards - the Nexus line. For me, I want a real keyboard for haptic feedback and to avoid losing screen-space to pictures of a keyboard. I don't think either of us can speak for 'most people' due to a lack of data, but I know I'm an unserviced market niche.

K3n.

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 22:37 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (5 responses)

The Android developer previews originally had keyboards - the Nexus line.

Nexus never had a keyboard but both first Android phone (HTC G1) and first popular Android phone (Motorola Droid) had keyboards.

You still can find plenty of devices with keyboards (such as Droid 4, or Samsung Galaxy Chat), but they are not as popular as phones without keyboard.

I don't think either of us can speak for 'most people' due to a lack of data, but

Yes we can. Early in Android history most phones had QWERTY keybords (not a hard feat if you'll recall that for half a year 100% of Android phones had QWERTY because there was exactly one Android model - but even in 2010 there were dozens of them). But they were not popular. People abandoned them and even after that the surviving models failed to beat any sales records (which would be natural consequence if there are steady niche of users who refuse to use smartphone without physical keyboard).

This means that while, perhaps, some people still prefer smartphones with a physical keyboard there are not enough of them to count. Smartphones are mass market products. If you don't have tens of thousand buyers (at least tens of thousands!) then you don't have buyers period. And smartphones with keyboards don't have these buyers. Or rather: they do have buyers (new models are introduced regularly), they just don't have as much buyers and non-qwerty smartphones (there are less models and these are less popular then similar non-qwerty smartphones).

For me, I want a real keyboard for haptic feedback and to avoid losing screen-space to pictures of a keyboard. I know I'm an unserviced market niche.

This is strange thing to say: there plenty of Android phones with QWERTY. Enough to create lists of best phones with keyboards. If people are buying Motorola Droid Razr or Samsung Galaxy Note instead then that just means that most of them want thin and light phone or phone with large screen more then they want keyboard.

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 29, 2012 4:32 UTC (Thu) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (4 responses)

For some reason these days it's only the cheap phones (like the Galaxy Chat) that have a qwerty keypad. Top-end phones don't. Either there's a market failure, or there is a market, but the buyers don't want to spend a lot of money. Assuming the latter hypothesis, maybe there's a lesson here. If you're the sort who wants the phone to be a useful device, you probably value function over flashy features, you don't care about smooth animation or CPU-intensive games. And you will buy a Galaxy Chat for a fraction the price of a Galaxy S III. You will not buy a more expensive SIII with a physical keypad, because you'd rather spend the money on something more useful.

(Disclosure: I'd buy a Galaxy Chat right now, except I bought a lesser-brand device that developed charging problems within six months and is currently being repaired. This is the Micromax A78 and its form factor is superb -- its screen is as large as the older iPhones, its qwerty keypad is not quite as good as Nokia/Blackberry but still far better than typing on glass, and it runs everything I need. Too bad the big guys don't produce anything like it.)

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 29, 2012 15:09 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (3 responses)

This is the Micromax A78 and its form factor is superb -- its screen is as large as the older iPhones, its qwerty keypad is not quite as good as Nokia/Blackberry but still far better than typing on glass, and it runs everything I need. Too bad the big guys don't produce anything like it.

Well, it's Dual SIM, too - which means most lucrative sales channels are closed for it. Which automatically makes it low-cost device which requires low-spec hardware (you can not use high-end components and sell the result for cheap).

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 30, 2012 4:40 UTC (Fri) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (2 responses)

In most of the world, you buy the phone separately from your phone plan, and a dual sim is an advantage, not a disadvantage. There are upmarket dual-sim phones from major brands too, like the Samsung Galaxy S Duos. and some HTC Desire models. In short, dual sim has nothing to do with anything.

It is true that only low-cost devices seem to have qwerty keypads these days. I attribute it to brainwashing by Jobs, and/or cost-consciousness on the part of the relatively discerning customers who use the phone primarily as a communication device and demand a qwerty keypad.

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 30, 2012 19:11 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (1 responses)

In most of the world, you buy the phone separately from your phone plan, and a dual sim is an advantage, not a disadvantage.

How do you measure "most of the world"? By number of users or by amount of money spent on phones?

Most affluent customers live in countries where carriers sell mobile phones tied to the contract - and of course you'll not see dual sim phones sold by carriers any time soon. And makes no sense whatsoever to produce high-end phones for cheap countries like China or India.

There are upmarket dual-sim phones from major brands too, like the Samsung Galaxy S Duos and some HTC Desire models.

Is this some kind of joke?

Samsung Galaxy S Duos (July 2012):
480 x 800 pixels, 4.0 inches
768 MB RAM
4 GB internal memory
1 GHz Cortex-A5 (single core)

HTC Desire VC (June 2012):
480 x 800 pixels, 4.0 inches
512 MB RAM
4 GB storage
1 GHz Cortex-A5 (single core)

HTC Desire SV (November 2012):
480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches
768 MB RAM
4 GB storage
1 GHz Cortex-A5 (dual core, finally, but still obsolete architecture)

Compare it with old, obsolete, and no loner top-of-the-line phone of 2011:

Samsung I9100 Galaxy S II (February 2011):
480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches
1 GB RAM
16GB/32GB storage
1.2 GHz Cortex-A9 (dual core)

All these upmarket dual-sim phones are still less powerful then by now almost two years old phone! Heck, they are still stuck with WVGA when top-of-the-line phones had WXGA for more then year:

Samsung Galaxy Nexus (October 2011):
720 x 1280 pixels, 4.65 inches
1 GB RAM
16 GB storage
1.2 GHz Cortex-A9 (dual-core)

In short, dual sim has nothing to do with anything.

If "dual sim has nothing to do with anything" then why all dual-sim phones have two years old specs?

It is true that only low-cost devices seem to have qwerty keypads these days. I attribute it to brainwashing by Jobs, and/or cost-consciousness on the part of the relatively discerning customers who use the phone primarily as a communication device and demand a qwerty keypad.

WTF?

Motorola DROID 4 (January 2012)
540 x 960 pixels, 4.0 inches
1 GB RAM
16 GB
1.2 GHz Cortex-A9 (dual-core)

It's resolution is fine for it's size even in 2012 and it's still more powerful then all the upmarket dual-sim phones

I'm not sure why people are not buying high-end QWERTY devices, but that's not because there are no offers: there are still some decent QWERTY phones but they are ever less popular. There will probably no more offers in the 2013, but that's because people are not buying them.

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Dec 6, 2012 23:27 UTC (Thu) by JanC_ (guest, #34940) [Link]

Most affluent customers live in countries where carriers sell mobile phones tied to the contract [...].

Although in many countries subsidized phones are sold that are tied to a contract, usually they are not simlocked, or the simlock is removed on simple request (sometimes a small fee needs to be paid for unlocking). Of course, unlocking the phone doesn't cancel the contract, so you still have to pay the subscription fee for the length of the contract (whether you use that particular service or not) or buy off the contract.

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 9:14 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (2 responses)

ps -- what, exactly, in the Surface reviews do you allude to to support your point? The two negatives I see are (1) lack of software (but that will be fixed very quickly; already I see many of the popular Android apps have Windows RT versions); (2) some issues with cracking of the keyboard cover. Again, that ought to get fixed, if it is a widespread issue. Otherwise, the reviews I've seen are glowing.

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 13:33 UTC (Wed) by simosx (guest, #24338) [Link]

off-topic: "Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster claims Microsoft's store had 47 percent less foot traffic than the nearby Apple store."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57554073-75/a-black-fri...

Ubuntu on the Nexus 7

Posted Nov 28, 2012 16:17 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

Otherwise, the reviews I've seen are glowing.

You mean Gotta say love that SURFACE! Have bought 12 already for Christmas gifts #FavoriteThings… via Twitter for iPad reviews? Of course these will be glowing: pecunia non olet.

Serious reviews all note that two modes are confusing and many things are really hard to do without keyboard (and with keyboard it's hard to use these things with just one hand). With typical (and quite justified!) verdict: Surface is a fantastic promise, and holds fantastic potential. But while potential is worth your attention, it's not worth your paycheck. Surface RT gets so many things right, and pulls so many good things together into one package. But it is undercooked. For all Microsoft's claims to hardware perfection and software revolution, Surface RT is undone by too many little annoyances, cracks, and flaws. After the initial delight of an evolved tablet wears off, you'll groan—because Surface brings the appearance of unity, but it's really just the worst of both worlds. Instead of trading in your laptop and tablet for Surface, a cocktail of compromises that fracture the whole endeavor, you'll miss them both urgently.