Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

[Posted November 24, 2012 by ris]

The Verge takes a look at the new Meego-based Sailfish, from the Finnish startup, Jolla. "There are a few interesting UI concepts detailed in the video. First, the homescreen itself acts as a multitasking menu: when in an app you can swipe it away to push it to the homescreen, where it'll act like a large, interactive widget. The application drawer itself lives underneath the homescreen and can be accessed with a swipe up, while notifications are displayed in the upper right. There's an automatic theme generator called "ambience," which creates a look and feel for your device by analyzing a photo. Jolla says many Android apps will run "unaltered" via Myriad's Alien Dalvik software, while others will require some tweaking." (Thanks to Mats)

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Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

Posted Nov 24, 2012 6:07 UTC (Sat) by hadrons123 (guest, #72126) [Link] (11 responses)

Looks like there is an mobile operating system on a daily basis. Didn't expect people to be this enthusiastic about mobile. Given an option I would choose my Desktop/Laptop all the time over mobile.

Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

Posted Nov 24, 2012 11:07 UTC (Sat) by kragil (guest, #34373) [Link] (6 responses)

A few years ago, I would have said the same.
But today if I really had to choose I would take a phone. A phone like the Nexus 4 with 2gigs of RAM and a quadcore is not nearly as fast as my desktop, but it isn't slow either and I can take it everywhere. And you can connect keyboards and monitors. Sure I would have to live with lots of sacrifices, but not having a smartphone would be the bigger sacrifice.

Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

Posted Nov 24, 2012 19:44 UTC (Sat) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link] (5 responses)

Did you post that from your phone?

Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

Posted Nov 25, 2012 2:12 UTC (Sun) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (4 responses)

I am posting this from my phone, as I often do. This is a Nokia E63, an oldish model that is in no way comparable to a computer. But there is no reason why a newer Linux-based phone can't come with a laptop dock (like the Asus Padfone) and be a perfectly useful laptop. Or, indeed, paired to a keyboard/mouse and hdmi monitor and be used as a desktop. It is even possible with android without too much trouble if it's rooted and you're ok with a chroot setup and vnc display.

Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

Posted Nov 25, 2012 20:59 UTC (Sun) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link] (3 responses)

I have posted LWN comments in the past from my phone, but mostly very short ones. I was just curious if the original poster's comment was posted from a phone-- it is quite long, so I suspect not.

Combining an external keyboard with a mobile device is an interesting idea, but so far it doesn't seem to have taken off. The problem is, once you're lugging around a keyboard, you might as well lug around a laptop as well. Laptops have gotten really light-- mine is only 3.5 pounds. Maybe one day a good ultra-portable keyboard for tablets will be developed, but I wouldn't hold my breath. A lot of the newer "chiclet style" laptop keyboards are horrible-- if anything, keyboard design has regressed.

Microsoft seems to have placed a big bet on a combination tablet/keyboard with the Microsoft Surface. I guess we'll see how it all turns out. For every XBox, there are a few Zunes.

Jolla offer a first look at their Sailfish smartphone OS (The Verge)

Posted Nov 26, 2012 11:01 UTC (Mon) by beagnach (guest, #32987) [Link]

"For every XBox, there are a few Zunes."

beautifully put :-)

smartphone as a laptop replacement

Posted Nov 27, 2012 11:51 UTC (Tue) by pjm (guest, #2080) [Link] (1 responses)

> The problem is, once you're lugging around a keyboard, you might as well lug around a laptop as well.

Not entirely: a folding keyboard can fit in a pocket. It doesn't require a laptop bag over your shoulder, you can just put it in your pocket in the morning and forget about it until you use it.

> Maybe one day a good ultra-portable keyboard for tablets will be developed, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I use a Stowaway folding keyboard from a few years ago (predating tablets as we now know them). It's not quite as good as a laptop keyboard (mainly in that Esc and F1..F12 need a modifier key rather than having a separate row), but it's much better for my use than a netbook keyboard. It's one of the larger portable keyboards, but it still fits in a pocket, even if not a shirt pocket.

> A lot of the newer "chiclet style" laptop keyboards are horrible-- if anything, keyboard design has regressed.

The Stowaway keyboard I'm referring to doesn't have the problem I think you're referring to: it feels much like a traditional laptop keyboard.

There are others that you might not like, such as the rubbery rollable keyboards, or projection keyboards.

smartphone as a laptop replacement

Posted Nov 27, 2012 18:22 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

>> The problem is, once you're lugging around a keyboard, you might as well lug around a laptop as well.

> Not entirely: a folding keyboard can fit in a pocket. It doesn't require a laptop bag over your shoulder, you can just put it in your pocket in the morning and forget about it until you use it.

Besides this, in many places that you will be using the tablet for desktop type work, you may have a real keyboard sitting there (just like people do for their laptops in many cases)

Devices all over

Posted Nov 25, 2012 0:50 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link] (3 responses)

The best part is that we don't have to choose. I have a powerful desktop and a light mobile phone, and each have their use. I can read LWN while riding the metro, and then work at my desktop.

As to cmccabe's scepticism about writing on the mobile, I can write short messages, no problem. For commenting on LWN.net it gets harder because my terminal is configured for Spanish and the layout makes it a bit annoying; but I can also write short posts. Forget about entering HTML though.

Devices all over

Posted Nov 25, 2012 13:02 UTC (Sun) by simlo (guest, #10866) [Link] (2 responses)

But why bother with two devices, when - as said in a comment above - could have one and a docking stating. Then you would not have the trouble of synchronizing data.

Devices all over

Posted Nov 25, 2012 13:21 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link] (1 responses)

It is a good question from the outside, but for actual mobile users it is quite clear. I don't use the same set of applications on my desktop and on my mobile: I would never want to do development on my phone and I don't have any use for apps on my desktop. The only common use is web browsing, but for syncing data our friendly websites (such as LWN.net) do the hard work. As for data, pics go into external storage anyway and I don't listen to music (it eats into battery life). I could easily synchronize using a cloud service if needed.

I can clearly be wrong, but this time we are headed to a constellation of devices that are going to need synchronizing anyway. On my desktop I currently have three general-purpose computers (desktop proper, mobile and SheevaPlug) plus two special purpose (printer and router). I expect that pervasive computing be the new paradigm, and that this number grows with time and encompasses the whole house. Then we will need storage hubs and/or cloud services for all computers, so it will not make any difference to have one more device; only convenience will matter.

We are seeing a lot of effort thrown at convergence these days: Windows 8, GNOME 3, Ubuntu for Android. IMHO free software should instead focus on divergence and federation; that is where our best bets lie.

Devices all over

Posted Nov 25, 2012 18:54 UTC (Sun) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

Different people have different needs. My linux chroot on my android tablet (for which I bought a keyboard case) lets me do programming (mainly python), latex, and even libreoffice, apart from the usual mail and web browsing. And that tablet is a nearly two year old model -- lots of phones today are much more powerful. There are advantages to a powerful desktop, and also advantages to a device you can whip out whenever you have some spare time and start working on, without looking for a power outlet (battery lasts all day) or a wifi hotspot (it has a 3G sim inside it). And, when I need to run something from that desktop, I can access it from wherever I am.

A phone with a laptop-dock would work great. In fact I thought Ubuntu for Android was for precisely such uses -- I wonder what became of that.

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 25, 2012 23:23 UTC (Sun) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link] (9 responses)

I couldn't find definitive information about this: Is the Sailfish GUI free software?

(Just curious, I will not use it anyway. I loved Maemo, but not much its children and grandchildren. Now I'm happy with CyanogenMod + F-Droid.)

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 26, 2012 2:49 UTC (Mon) by aryonoco (guest, #55563) [Link] (1 responses)

Doesn't seem to be.

There is all this talk right now of "friendship" and openness and transparency and lots of other fluffy words, but no actual code at the moment. It seems to be built on top of Mer but that's about it. We'll see how/if the situation changes in the future.

For contrast, as much as we like to bash Android here, it's worth noting that Android's code was out and open a good 10 months or so before the first phone running Android appeared on the market (T-Mobile G1/HTC Dream).

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 26, 2012 16:44 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

I'm big fan of the Android, too, but please don't spread FUD. Binary-only Android SDK was released in 2007, sure, but android's source was only released year later when real phones become available.

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 26, 2012 16:52 UTC (Mon) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link] (6 responses)

This info isn't available yet, since it's not yet decided by Jolla themselves.

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 26, 2012 22:25 UTC (Mon) by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624) [Link]

From the @JollaMobile twitter account:

We are working on the details, but the intention is to be as open as possible.

...and also this tweet:

For the biggest parts yes but for the UI not yet, keep following http://sailfishos.org .

So not yet defined yet..

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 27, 2012 15:44 UTC (Tue) by lbt (subscriber, #29672) [Link] (4 responses)

So, in the interests of constructive suggestions, how would people suggest things like Sailfish should be opened?

Should a company open every line of code they write before anything ships? What happens to the business model and potentially the investor story in that case?

Should they follow the MySQL route of open-core?

Should they follow the Android route of open-when-it's-done?

Maybe the answer is different for different layers? What layers should there be? On-device apps? Components? Icons?

What about closed-but-NC-redistributable bits (which Nokia did and which helped open projects like Mer in the Maemo times)?

Mer Core, Tools and SDK are develop-in-the-open, as is Qt so that's easy.

We're listening - but be quick.

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 27, 2012 16:59 UTC (Tue) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]

If one likes to conquer the hearts of the free software community, one has to be compete with the existing systems. So be a little bit more open than Android, at least. E.g. I'm using a Samsung telephone with CyanogenMod and no proprietary Google addons (no Google apps, mail, etc.). There are, unfortunately, still some non-free drivers, but the everything else is free. If Jolla would be at least so open, that people can practically port or fork it, it might get some positive feedback in the free software world.

Is it free software?

Posted Nov 28, 2012 13:24 UTC (Wed) by gerv (guest, #3376) [Link] (2 responses)

Should a company open every line of code they write before anything ships?

That's our plan for Firefox OS. At least, those parts we have control over the source of. AIUI no-one has yet managed to ship a phone (any phone, I _think_, and certainly not one in commercial quantities via standard channels) which is 100% open source software, and sadly Firefox OS, v1 at least, won't be it. But everything from Gecko upwards is open, and most of the lower parts too.

What happens to the business model and potentially the investor story in that case?

Much has been written on how to make money from free software. Our business development people certainly have ideas of how it can be done in our case. We have the advantage of a strong existing brand, of course.

Mobile companies, I suggest, are not interested in "another Android". Being "as open as Android" just leads to the response "well, then I can just use Android". You need to give carriers and OEMs more control - and the openness of your project is their guarantee of that control. Because you can't lock them out of the source tree if some agreement isn't renewed, so that e.g. in the Android case, they get the code six months later than everyone else. The elimination of that possibility should be attractive to them.

Gerv

Is it free software?

Posted Dec 1, 2012 13:34 UTC (Sat) by edgar2 (guest, #88114) [Link]

You need to give carriers and OEMs more control - and the openness of your project is their guarantee of that control.

this here is interesting. from the perspective of someone interested of buying and using the device, another MyNokia* or CarrierIQ are just not desirable. it's one thing to allow carriers (or anyone else for that matter) to develop business models on top of an open platform, but it's a different matter if whatever business the carriers have in mind is something that is deceitful or cannot be avoided/uninstalled.

_________________________________________________________
* https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366

Is it free software?

Posted Dec 3, 2012 9:51 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link]

You just develop the OS. Nothing wrong with that but I fully expect most phone distributions of FirefoxOS to be rather locked down by carriers and phone manufacturers. If Jolla releases the code shortly after their device comes on the market, I don't really consider it much more closed than such a locked FirefoxOS phone.

More importantly, Jolla might very well have good incentives to open up development in time. Once they release and things work out from a business perspective I think it's not unlikely that, piece by piece, development opens up.

Last but not least, I'm not a big fan of the HTML5 and web fad. Unless the web starts moving to the Affero GPL I pick a GPL native app any time over a web app from a freedom perspective. That is not meant to put down the awesome work Mozilla does for the web, don't get me wrong - I just happen to think the whole direction is dangerous.