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The easy way out

The easy way out

Posted Nov 6, 2012 15:28 UTC (Tue) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155)
In reply to: The easy way out by man_ls
Parent article: Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Look, the problem you're tackling is much larger and more complex than "money is just an intangible, are you crazy or something?" and I don't want to make this into a political conversation more than it already is.

What I can tell you is that I can't possibly "blame government". I can't blame something that literally doesn't exist to begin with. Government, like God, is just a belief that some entity bestows magical moral superpowers to certain people who allegedly represents the entity. What exists are *people doing things*, some under the influence of certain -- in my view, malevolent -- beliefs.

All I can do is stop believing in that belief. Sure, these people will still threaten me if I don't obey them, but it's much better, more liberating, and more factually correct to see them for what they are: dangerous people acting under the influence of malevolent beliefs.

I invite you to try and do the same.


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Denial

Posted Nov 6, 2012 16:20 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

You invite me to live in denial of human society and its main organizations, such as the ways of governing its communities? Thanks, but I actually prefer to live in a country where there is a government; nix explained it beautifully above. Even pillars of anarchy like Bakunin did not advocate the elimination of all organizations, but rather wanted to make all organizations voluntary (so that any party could rescind their membership at any time). I can sympathize with that view; not so much with believing that government is a collection of evil people.

And I don't want to limit my thoughts to just "people doing things", specially if it means "evil people doing malevolent things". For that matter I would prefer to believe, with Feynman, that there are only jiggling atoms; at least it is an amusing view and can lead to interesting conclusions.

Denial

Posted Nov 6, 2012 22:06 UTC (Tue) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

> Even pillars of anarchy like Bakunin did not advocate the elimination of all organizations

I didn't do that. You have misread me. No wonder you say things like:

> You invite me to live in denial of human society and its main organizations, such as the ways of governing its communities?

I never said such a thing, and this is loaded with condescension.

------------------------------------

You have made your intentions pretty clear. You don't use the written word to communicate with people and exchange ideas with them. You use it to try and shame / condescend / discredit ideas you can't conceive of (perhaps because you fear them, but you are unaware of the source of the fear). Since I've been reading this thread, this isn't the first comment where you've acted in this dishonest and manipulative way, and I'm sure it won't be the last (people who behave like you are repeat offenders par excellence).

Not that I would, but talking to a wall would be more productive -- at least the wall doesn't respond with snark. Accordingly, it would be a waste of time for me to try and engage you in a conversation about the topic.

Enjoy your belief system, safely protected by your reflexive snark. Good bye.

The easy way out

Posted Nov 6, 2012 22:15 UTC (Tue) by FranTaylor (guest, #80190) [Link]

"government doesn't exist"

You might as well say that "computers don't exist"

A government is a collection of people.

A computer is a collection of electronic parts.

The easy way out

Posted Nov 6, 2012 22:41 UTC (Tue) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

> A government is a collection of people.

Nah, I'm not persuaded that this is a valid definition of government. At best, it is incomplete, like saying "a human is a mammal". There's lots of mammals that aren't humans, just as there's lots of groups who aren't governments.

Now, had you said "Government is a group of people who believe they are entitled to maintain a monopoly of aggression in a certain geographical area", I would agree -- you would be correct.

And then I would tell you that this belief ("who believe they are entitled to maintain a monopoly of aggression") is the delusional part. It's actually a two-parter belief -- those who believe themselves to be part of "government" believe they are entitled to use violence against people who disobey them, and everyone else (the vast majority) believe the same thing (thereby legitimizing the actions of this sociopathic group you speak of).

Contrast that with most other groups of people: Bridge clubs (another type of group of people), for example, don't get together and partake in the delusion that they will invent rules for everyone else in their geographic region, and then violently punish those who disobey them. People doing business as "government" do.

That is the delusion.

Now, as you might be aware of, beliefs -- what distinguishes government from other groups -- don't exist in reality. While you can point to an assembled computer and say "this is a computer" and I can see it, you can't point to the belief, or anything in observable reality that embodies the belief, and say "that is government", really. You can show me buildings, you can show me people in costumes, you can show me guns and tanks. You can show me the *effects* of belief in government. But government itself? I'll believe you when you show me God first, instead of pointing me to a church and saying "there's God".

You may or may not disagree with me. I welcome corrections, so long as they are not manipulations or insults, like certain other individuals in this thread have attempted. After all, insulting or manipulating people only shows that you're scared of what you're reading.

The easy way out

Posted Nov 6, 2012 22:50 UTC (Tue) by jake (editor, #205) [Link]

Please, can we move discussion of political systems, the right or wrongness of government, and other similar topics to a more appropriate forum?

This thread is (or should be) about patents and RMS's thoughts thereon ...

thanks,

jake

The easy way out

Posted Nov 6, 2012 23:10 UTC (Tue) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

Now this sounds like a more reasonable response.

I agree.

Everyone who is interested in having a conversation about political systems and whatnot, is cordially invited to http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism . Have a great day.

The easy way out

Posted Nov 6, 2012 23:50 UTC (Tue) by FranTaylor (guest, #80190) [Link]

> After all, insulting or manipulating people only shows that you're scared of what you're reading.

ONLY?

"Nah, I'm not persuaded that this is a valid definition. At best, it is incomplete"

Hey lets talk about MANIPULATIVE WRITING:

"and then violently punish those who disobey them. People doing business as "government" do."

So when the government writes me out a parking ticket, they will violently punish me if I don't pay it?

Hey GUESS WHAT??? There is ALWAYS going to be a guy with the biggest stick and he is ALWAYS going to be in charge. The question is, does the guy with the biggest stick have absolute power or not? Government is the only way to distribute power AWAY from the guy with the biggest stick.

"so long as they are not manipulations or insults"

You've insulted ME by using HYPERBOLE in your response!

The easy way out

Posted Nov 7, 2012 12:25 UTC (Wed) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]

This is probably the most insightful thing I've ever read that has random capitalized text.

Now if only certain people with incredibly naive political philosophies would read it and decide to go back to reddit.


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