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Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Posted Nov 6, 2012 15:09 UTC (Tue) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155)
In reply to: Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired) by mhw
Parent article: Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

> RMS understands something that you and other Libertarians do not: the government is not the only danger to individual liberty.

Suggestion: if you wish to engage others constructively, don't tell them what they do or don't understand. As it happens, I understand the dynamics of that particular problem very well.

> Corporations are also a very grave threat.

Corporations, as contemporarily understood, are universally and always government-created institutions. If you hate corporations, you must necessarily hate government, because all the magical privileges that corporations have over you and allow them to control you, are granted (and are only possible) because of government actions and threats against you.

Maybe in a society free of the belief in the magical institution, corporations would be different. They would obviously not have the magical privileges bestowed upon them by the magical institution. But today, they do.

> Corporations have no accountability to anyone except their shareholders,

And who do you think codified this destructive and anti-social reality into law?

Corporations? Their executives? Their employees?

Or the people we call "government"?

See why I am not a fan of this magical institution?

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> Anarchists are against all forms of coercion, whereas Libertarians focus all of their ire on the government.

Good news: I'm against all forms of coercion -- private, corporate and political. I understand that the origin of the corporate aggression is political, and I understand that the origin of politics is the magical belief that a few people ought to have the power to invent rules and then punish everyone who disobeys them (such as, for example, corporate law).

That is why I have ceased to believe in such an irrational and destructive magical superpower.

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NB: I would say "everything goes back to government". While it sounds tempting, and a very simple theory, that wouldn't be true, given my fairly recent discoveries. I now think everything goes back to child abuse by authority figures -- that is the key element that teaches children "you are not an autonomous individual, the authorities who can punish you are always right, never challenge them, or there will be consequences". This is *exactly* the belief exploited by people who believe in the magical institution (who position themselves as this authority).

I think talking about that is far more fascinating than talking about politics, because it is the original cause for all politics. Once we get rid of destructive parenting and education, the need for politics will vanish.


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Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Posted Nov 6, 2012 15:56 UTC (Tue) by mhw (subscriber, #13931) [Link]

Corporations, as contemporarily understood, are universally and always government-created institutions. If you hate corporations, you must necessarily hate government, because all the magical privileges that corporations have over you and allow them to control you, are granted (and are only possible) because of government actions and threats against you.

Maybe in a society free of the belief in the magical institution, corporations would be different. They would obviously not have the magical privileges bestowed upon them by the magical institution.

That's simply false. If government did not exist, corporations would be able to obtain the privileges they desire by brute force, and control the people much more effectively than they do now. All of the services that government currently provides to them (e.g. police protection, the military, coercion of their labor force) would move to the private sector. Unlike the current arrangement where these services are monopolized by an institution that is at least in theory accountable to the people and somewhat constrained by our political system, without the government these private services would have no respect for human rights and seek primarily to maximize their profits.

Corporations and billionaires don't need the government. The rest of us do. If we can replace the services that government provides to us with decentralized alternatives that actually work to our benefit and respect human rights, that sounds great (though the devil is always in the details), but that job has to be done first, before you loudly advocate dismantling the only semi-democratic institution we have left that's strong enough to constrain the power of corporations.

The rich guy

Posted Nov 6, 2012 19:22 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

Instead of corporations, we used to have "the rich owner of the village" who hired thugs to intimidate everyone else. I will take a government I can safely distrust every time.

Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Posted Nov 6, 2012 21:39 UTC (Tue) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

> If government did not exist, corporations would be able to obtain the privileges they desire by brute force

This is illogical.

(1) Corporations already don't exist today (ask a lawyer and the answer will contain the words "legal fiction").

(2) When the people that enforce the legal fiction lose all power to enforce the fiction (which happens when people stop believing that they are entitled to using force), obviously all the privileges that a "corporation" grants on certain people just vanish instantly.

If what you meant is that Apple and Microsoft employees and executives will suddenly turn into a Mad Max with Motorcycles Roving Band of Marauders, then that would be a different argument that has nothing to do with corporations.

For starters such a group of vandals would not be a corporation in any sense of the word, rather it would be just a gang. So you're still incorrect and your criticism just doesn't apply anymore.

More importantly, though, I've fielded literally thousands of arguments from catastrophe like yours, and they're just FUD. So I'm going to save myself some time and ignore it.

Seriously: You're proposing that people working for corporations will somehow turn into gangs if everyone ceases believing in Government. That is as ridiculous as proposing that regular peaceful human beings suddenly if everyone ceases believing in God. I can laugh at such preposterous what-if scenarios, but you can't expect me to take such scaremongering seriously.

-------------------------------

I use this argument as a basic logic test, a yardstick, that allows me to separate people who can logically deduce valid conclusions from a set of propositions, from people who cannot. You didn't fare very well. I'm sorry to say, but I have zero faith that you will be persuaded by logic. Since rational arguments are all I have to offer, I will stop here and focus my efforts on solving other people's questions. There are other people out there who don't have the "what if everyone turns into Mad Max" FUD cocked and ready to fire.

Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Posted Nov 6, 2012 23:40 UTC (Tue) by apoelstra (subscriber, #75205) [Link]

>I use this argument as a basic logic test, a yardstick, that allows me to separate people who can logically deduce valid conclusions from a set of propositions, from people who cannot. You didn't fare very well. I'm sorry to say, but I have zero faith that you will be persuaded by logic.

Please stop this nonsense. It is one thing to claim to be a "libertarian" while misrepresenting libertarian beliefs and being a boor, since that label doesn't mean much (nor does it mean anything relevant to LWN.net). But you can't claim to be "logical" or "reasonable".

Logic and reason are intimately related to computing and software development, and many people here are experts in these fields. Even if your off-topic trolling were logical or reasonable, it would be offensive to accuse anyone here of being illogical. Especially people who are spending their own time and energy replying to your drivel, just to clean up the mess you are making in LWN's comment history.

-plonk-

Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Posted Nov 7, 2012 18:32 UTC (Wed) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link]

People are perfectly capable of simultaneously being rational in one subject (programming) and highly irrational in others (superstitions like religion or your statism).

I can tell you are experiencing that localized irrationality because your name calling, engaging yourself in behaviors you just criticized, and discrediting, seem to be your preferred mode of "argumentation" when the topic of statist superstition is touched. Not very logical or reasonable, if you ask me.

That's fine -- I don't need to persuade you, nor do I care if stating facts or observations offends you. But you do seem to want to manipulate me into shutting up or experiencing shame. Learn to deal.

Let’s Limit the Effect of Software Patents, Since We Can’t Eliminate Them (Wired)

Posted Nov 8, 2012 2:01 UTC (Thu) by ajf (subscriber, #10844) [Link]

If you hate corporations, you must necessarily hate government
Here we observe the logical fallacy that underpins your entire belief system.


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