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wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 17:07 UTC (Thu) by sjj (subscriber, #2020)
In reply to: wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator by nickbp
Parent article: wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

+1. One of my pet peeves is the "Look Ma, I'm using %s! And to show everybody how clever I am to use it, I named my thing with %s!" naming convention that plagues open source. K is the worst, py comes pretty close second. I guess X started it...

wl is particularly cumbersome to pronounce too. If you have to do this, how about "way-"?

Nice thing


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wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 17:08 UTC (Thu) by sjj (subscriber, #2020) [Link]

Oops, don't know what I was trying to say with "Nice thing "...

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 17:51 UTC (Thu) by leif81 (guest, #75132) [Link]

I aprove the 'way' prefix. I could get used to saying wayterm.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 20:46 UTC (Thu) by teknohog (guest, #70891) [Link]

> I could get used to saying wayterm.

waybackmachine (for backups)
waynesworld (nintendo emulator)

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 18:13 UTC (Thu) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link]

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Apt-cache search X and you get a list so long you might as well google it. I appreciate the benefit that prefix provides under certain circumstances, but it's been abused so badly that finding the right package becomes a huge list that will have to be manually sorted when you can't recall the name of the package you are looking for.

I will also second the list of abusers, X, py, K, lib (yes I know lib is probably one we have to live with, but there is a package I can't recall with a name that has lib in it but it's not a library and it's impossible to find) and several others have made searching for anything with those characters an exercise in futility.

Naming conventions

Posted Sep 27, 2012 19:01 UTC (Thu) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]

Hah! Try apt-cache searching for "R" (the math/statistics package)

(Debian calls it r-core, but you have to know that in order to know it.)

Naming conventions

Posted Sep 27, 2012 19:02 UTC (Thu) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]

I even got it wrong. It's r-base :(

Naming conventions

Posted Sep 27, 2012 20:03 UTC (Thu) by sjj (subscriber, #2020) [Link]

apt-cache search --names-only '^r-' is a bit better but you have to know about the hyphen in package names.

Naming conventions

Posted Oct 3, 2012 18:45 UTC (Wed) by BenHutchings (subscriber, #37955) [Link]

'axi-cache search r' works a lot better.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 6:34 UTC (Fri) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link]

> there is a package I can't recall with a name that has lib in it but it's not a library

libreoffice?

The binary names in it are also fun: I kept parsing 'localc' as 'local-c' and trying to understand what it was (a local C compiler?) before I understood it was actually 'l-o-calc'.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Oct 1, 2012 9:34 UTC (Mon) by njd27 (subscriber, #5770) [Link]

librecad is another example.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 29, 2012 9:45 UTC (Sat) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

How can you expect any single letter to be searchable?

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 20:22 UTC (Thu) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

Well, my pet peeve is people whining about application naming. It's petty and small-minded.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 20:44 UTC (Thu) by andresfreund (subscriber, #69562) [Link]

Unless its names you cannot sensibly search the web for like 'perf'.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 11:07 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Language names are much worse. Clojure is a nice searchable name. Haskell is OK on this front (though it's both a personal and family name so is somewhat ambiguous); Java is tolerable, but C? Go? Not much chance of finding *that*.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 11:15 UTC (Fri) by andresfreund (subscriber, #69562) [Link]

C has a pretty good excuse with being around before the web, universally available search engines and all but I still cannot grok what made the go designers choose that name.
Its as if the respective authors have desire of not being used/searched/found.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 12:28 UTC (Fri) by madscientist (subscriber, #16861) [Link]

You guys do know that you can use more than one word at a time with Google, right? I mean, you can type "programming language go" and ... amazing! ... first hit.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 20:33 UTC (Fri) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link]

Good luck with not missing the rare pages which are actually apropos to your needs this way..

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 13:41 UTC (Fri) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]

Not that long before the WEB. C was invented in 1972. In 1984 Knuth reported in an article about his Pascal program(PDF):
I chose the name WEB partly because it was one of the few three-letter words of English that hadn’t already been applied to computers.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 29, 2012 10:29 UTC (Sat) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

And he was right! At the time. If he could look twenty years forward I think he might perhaps have chosen another name, *any* other name. :)

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Oct 4, 2012 12:16 UTC (Thu) by juliank (subscriber, #45896) [Link]

Searching for golang usually works good enough.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Oct 4, 2012 21:14 UTC (Thu) by jnareb (subscriber, #46500) [Link]

> Unless its names you cannot sensibly search the web for like 'perf'.

I agree that 'perf' subsystem is a stupidly unsearchable name... so try searching for 'perf events' instead.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 27, 2012 22:23 UTC (Thu) by sjj (subscriber, #2020) [Link]

Sure, I can see why you would defend names starting with K ;-) Don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate your input here on all things K and Krita. You've done much more for the community than I have. I even understand how we ended up here, but nowadays _to me_, the KDE start menu looks like it was designed by and for middle schoolers*. Application naming is part of a DE's user interface and kuteness becomes tiring after a while.

Like I said, it's a pet peeve, or "minor annoyance that an individual identifies as particularly annoying to them". So, not earth shattering importance. I consider "small-minded" more of an insult. But this is not the place or time for a flamefest. Peace out, bro!

* in the US, 11-13 year olds.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 28, 2012 13:56 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

the KDE start menu looks like it was designed by and for middle schoolers

The one that pretends to be an iPod or the old one that behaved like a normal menu? The former's behaviour is surely less tolerable than any potential renaming of the shutdown option as "Kthxbye".

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Sep 29, 2012 10:30 UTC (Sat) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

I actually find the new menu really useful, because it minimizes the number of mouse motions necessary to get to any given item, and minimizes the distance you need to travel. But it's definitely sufficiently unusual that it probably turns off quite a lot of people.

wlterm: the native Wayland terminal emulator

Posted Oct 1, 2012 12:22 UTC (Mon) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

Recent experience suggests that it's pretty difficult to explain to people how to use it (1) over the telephone and (2) from memory of how it actually behaves, especially when a normal menu would be obvious enough. There's also the issue of navigating through a keyhole when the door is already open, but I know that the other extreme is full-screen menus, and that menu navigation can also be an exercise in applying finely tuned motor skills.

I love the K thing

Posted Sep 28, 2012 23:11 UTC (Fri) by blackbelt_jones (guest, #62623) [Link]

I don't expect the name of an application to entertain me. I expect the name of an application to it tell me what it is, as succinctly as possible. I know it seems korny, but I think the k prefix is genius, because of its economy. It identifies an application as being part of KDE, often without making the application name longer, not by a single character. The KDE terminal emulator in konsole. Easy Peasy.

This is yet another thing I hate about Gnome. What's the name of the terminal emulator in gnome? "Gnome-terminal". There are a whole lot of other apps that begin with "gnome-", so if I'm trying to open the application with the run command dialogue, I have to type 7 characters before I have any hope of identification for successful completion.

I love the K thing

Posted Sep 30, 2012 7:17 UTC (Sun) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

Single letter prefixes like 'k' also show some humility: these applications don't assume everyone is using KDE (or else)

I love the K thing

Posted Oct 1, 2012 14:14 UTC (Mon) by sorpigal (subscriber, #36106) [Link]

It's great, but tell me what part of KDE is kthreadd from? I don't use it and I wish to terminate this application.

But seriously, names mean what people want them to mean. A thing's names does not represent it's function, its function represents its name.

> There are a whole lot of other apps that begin with "gnome-", so if I'm trying to open the application with the run command dialogue, I have to type 7 characters before I have any hope of identification for successful completion.

But on the plus side, I can list all GNOME apps by typing gnome-[tab][tab], except for the ones that don't follow the convention. If it were applied universally the {gnome-,g,k} prefix would be much more useful, but it's inconsistent and you still have to guess.

I love the K thing

Posted Oct 2, 2012 10:22 UTC (Tue) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]

> great, but tell me what part of KDE is kthreadd from?

That's from the kernel, not kde...

http://www.linuxvox.com/2012/06/what-is-the-kthreadd-proc...

I love the K thing

Posted Oct 2, 2012 10:59 UTC (Tue) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

It seems to me that sorpigal (a) is perfectly aware of this (b) is raising a valid point regarding the overloading of the single-letter prefix 'k'.

I love the K thing

Posted Oct 2, 2012 4:07 UTC (Tue) by tnoo (subscriber, #20427) [Link]

Like, for example, kthreadd, khelper, and many others? This occasionally would have bitten me when I was trying to get rid of all jobs related to KDE. The main distinction is the permissions needed to kill these jobs.

Now, who was first, KDE or Kernel?

I love the K thing

Posted Oct 2, 2012 4:11 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

Kill them all and the init sort 'em out!


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