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Tent v0.1 released

Tent v0.1 released

Posted Sep 22, 2012 16:30 UTC (Sat) by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
In reply to: Tent v0.1 released by job
Parent article: Tent v0.1 released

. Mail just works for almost everyone. While it is true that you have to enter more settings in your mail software than should be strictly necessary, because of things like SMTP filtering, that is a solved problem.

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You do realize that a) large majority of those email users use email over HTTP in some form or another.. (either via google, hotmail, yahoomail) or the fact that various mail clients send their mail over HTTP in ugly ways to get around such firewalls?

And the games are run via various proxy daemons in firewalls that basically use HTTP.

Your arguments are 13+ years too late :/. You can join me on the front porch and yell at the kids to get off the lawn.. but that is about it. The problem is that HTTP turned out to be a nicely documented protocol that had lots of stuff written around it. It sure beats the people who would use the LPD printing or the SMTP email protocol for everything before hand. Before that the majority of programmers used UUCP as their basis. I say this from dealing with various network programs written in the 1980s and looking at why they weren't working in the 2000's due to firewalls and such. Most of them didn't have a custom protocol but were using one of those three as their basis.. mainly because they were there, they had been written and the programmer didn't have to deal with too much bikeshedding over what new command was needed to fulfil some esoteric task.


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HTTP a nicely documented protocol?

Posted Sep 23, 2012 7:13 UTC (Sun) by oldtomas (guest, #72579) [Link]

Glad you mentioned SMTP:

"It sure beats the people who would use the LPD printing or the SMTP email protocol for everything before hand"

You do realize that HTTP basically *is* SMTP: command line (just "GET" vs. "MAIL FROM", capitals included), CRLF separated headers, blank (CRLF line) then body? They just forgot the last line with a single dot (and are a bit more forgiving about what goes in the body, an attitude which turned around and has bitten us in the ass ever since (go read about "Content-Length" in the relevant RFCs if you don't know what I mean).

Of course, a multitude of contraptions have been bolted-on afterwards, some which look like wings, other like corkscrews. Flow control. A streaming (100 CONTINUE et al) protocol tacked upon a packet protocol (the original HTTP/1.0, akin to SMTP) with a rudimentary flow control, running over a much more sophisticated streaming protocol (TCP). No. If HTTP looks nice to you it's because you didn't look too much into it.

Actually it's chewing gum and bailing wire.

On a more general (and more on-topic) note: don't read in that a negative attitude towards Tent itself: I think it's a nifty idea, worth to take off -- I serioulsy hope it does (and having looked at their Git repo, the one thing I most wish would be a plain language description of the protocol they envision, rather than a fuzzball of Ruby and PostgreSQL. But I just might be blind -- or that may be in the making).


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