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Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 18:24 UTC (Tue) by krakensden (subscriber, #72039)
Parent article: Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

NM improvements are always interesting, and it will be interesting to see how big the grumpy population is, and how MATE is received.


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Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 19:28 UTC (Tue) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

What I would like to see from NetworkManager is the ability to support, in some manner, the ability to have bridged interfaces, macvlans, or other type of those sorts of things.

Right now the best approach is to throw your scripts to do the admin-y type odd network configurations using the NetworkManager dispatcher. This in itself is not a terrible thing and is actually very useful... but...

What I've noticed is that while examining virtualization management solutions (ovirt or openstack type things) is that nobody actually knows anything about networkmanager or how to use it properly. If the something like that mentions network manager at all they say something along the lines of: 'turn it off as it is known to cause issues for some users'.

So what you end up with is each solution you run into has their own half-baked way to set up bridges and other things. I think that adding bridging support will go along way towards helping people kick 'must make custom scripts' syndrom when setting up rather mundane configurations.

Especially for Fedora.. the quicker they can get away from using ifup/ifcfg scripts and moving to using nmcli/keyfiles the better off it'll be.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 20:20 UTC (Tue) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link]

I'd like NM to grow a nice way to do bonded interfaces between wifi and ethernet. Having a setup with a failover bonding so the wifi takes over on the same IP when I disconnect the Ethernet is a great thing, but I haven't had that working since I last ran Gentoo in 2007.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 21:30 UTC (Tue) by blitzkrieg3 (guest, #57873) [Link]

The problem I see with this is that there is no way to know if both interfaces are on the same subnet.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 21:54 UTC (Tue) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link]

There are a couple of ways.

You could do an ARP probe to see if the DHCP server or gateway of one of the other connected devices was available. Or even ARP for the other interface IP.

You could just look at the DHCP server to see if the same one is available on both interfaces.

If the interface turns out to be on the same network go ahead and add it to the bond.

The ARP or DHCP probing would also be a good way to add locations to NetworkManager.

Or better yet, some kind of LocationManager that could use connected network information, WiFi scan results, BlueTooth, GPS, compass and/or inertial sensor data to track location.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 19, 2012 3:58 UTC (Wed) by ebiederm (subscriber, #35028) [Link]

The standard way to detect that bonding is ok, is to do lacp.

There are other valid cases where two interfaces on the same network are ok but 802.3ad let boths sides no you are bonded, and is specified to allow for auto-configuration of bonds.

There are other games you can play but you should start with 802.3ad.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 19, 2012 4:12 UTC (Wed) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link]

I don't want a bond for sharing bandwidth, so it does not matter that the other side knows about it. I want the bond for fail-over only so that when the Ethernet disconnects it falls back to wireless. There's a mode for that in Linux.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 22:59 UTC (Tue) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link]

Does that actually *work* with most network setups? Seems unlikely to work with the standard configurations of most personal router configurations, let alone corporate networks in which wired and wireless typically connect to different infrastructures entirely.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 19, 2012 4:23 UTC (Wed) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285) [Link]

Why would a personal router not let it work? It worked in 2007. The hard-wired Ethernet and the WiFi are on the same IP network. The router acts as a bridge.

And where I work, which is a corporation although small, we have a similar setup. In fact, I think we are using some ordinary Linksys consumer thing for the office.

With the bond in fail-over mode, when the bond detects that the primary link (in this case Ethernet) goes down it sends ARPs out on the second link (WiFi) to update the ARP tables of all the bridges, switches and interfaces sending it traffic.

So it may lose a packet or two but TCP/IP quickly recovers.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 20:26 UTC (Tue) by bfields (subscriber, #19510) [Link]

Right now the best approach is to throw your scripts to do the admin-y type odd network configurations using the NetworkManager dispatcher.

Looking around... so you're talking about scripts in /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d, as documented in NetworkManager(8)?

Do you have any examples?

At testing events a few times a year I just turn off NetworkManager and configure stuff manually, but then it's always a pain going back and forth between the test network and the hotel where I want NetworkManager to do its usual thing without thinking about it....

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 21:03 UTC (Tue) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

> Looking around... so you're talking about scripts in /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d, as documented in NetworkManager(8)?

Yeah. That is how a administrator manually add functionality to NetworkManager. It's very similar in concept to 'init' scripts. Network Manager dispatcher will execute those scripts with a arguments to indicate the state of the interface and which interface it is.

I haven't figured out a good way to manage bridges that way yet. It's on my list of things to do. Right now I just tell Network Manager to leave certain interfaces alone by editing /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf. And then using ifcfg or rc scripts.

If I figure out a good way this evening then I'll post it.

I've typically used dispatcher in the past to connect to VPNs that don't have a compatibile plugin for network manager.

> At testing events a few times a year I just turn off NetworkManager and configure stuff manually, but then it's always a pain going back and forth between the test network and the hotel where I want NetworkManager to do its usual thing without thinking about it....

The trick I've found to configuring things "manually" with NetworkManager is to disable the 'native' ifcfg-rhat support for configurations and use keyfile configuration back end. This can be done by editing the NetworkManager.conf file.

The ifcfg support that NM has is subtly different, and I think limited, compared with the the ifcfg support that exists when using the old Redhat-style scripts with NetworkManager turned off. So I hate it. It's difficult to follow documentation and edit ifcfg scripts in a compatible way.

However /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ keyfiles provide a ini style configuration method that is fairly easy to wrap your head around if you have examples to go off of. NetworkManager monitors that directory for changes and will automatically implement changes when you exit out of your editor. Copying a config to it will turn on that config, moving it away with disable it. I think that Arch Linux and Gentoo provides decent documentation. If you disable ifcfg and use keyfiles then NM will generate configs that you can later go on and edit.

The settings that are available can be found at:
http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/developers/api/0...

Which is a pain in the ass to find.

The nmcli provides the most useful command line tool for it that I know of. It's especially useful if you want to connect to wifi with just the command line.

That brings me to wishing for better documentation. Most of this stuff exists in various forms, but it's difficult to piece together.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 19, 2012 17:03 UTC (Wed) by krakensden (subscriber, #72039) [Link]

This is the first time I've ever gotten a lead on how to do *anything* with NM on a server. I've bookmarked the page in the vain hope that the next time I need to set things up I'll get back here.

You should blog this or something.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 20, 2012 3:19 UTC (Thu) by sciurus (subscriber, #58832) [Link]

"That brings me to wishing for better documentation. Most of this stuff exists in various forms, but it's difficult to piece together."

Agreed. I gave up on NetworkManger in part because of this. I was a happy user when NetworkManager worked, but I was completely befuddled about what to do when it didn't.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 18, 2012 20:52 UTC (Tue) by Frej (subscriber, #4165) [Link]

Seems to be in already?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NMEnterpriseNetwor...

Can't say if it actually is.

Announcing the release of Fedora 18 Alpha

Posted Sep 19, 2012 17:29 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

It can do some things like bonding, although I haven't figured this out yet.

But I don't think it has bridges.

So far the best way I can find to use NM along with bridges is have NM ignore the interface you want to bridge and use ifcfg scripts to manage it since they support bridging.

If you put "no-auto-default=*" in the 'main' section of NetworkManager.conf that will prevent NetworkManager from making those pesky 'Wired Connections 1' type things.

The only thing bad about this is that NM will periodically overwrite /etc/resolv.conf with it's own settings, which if you do not have any then it will make it effectively blank. This is irritating.

I am a bit disappointed, to be honest.


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