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Bazaar on the slow track

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 12, 2012 22:17 UTC (Wed) by dlang (subscriber, #313)
In reply to: Bazaar on the slow track by Jonno
Parent article: Bazaar on the slow track

do you really think that if Debian abandons upstart for OpenRC that Ubuntu will not follow along?

and if Debian remains with upstart (even if they replace the sysvinit option with OpenRC), then Ubuntu sticking with upstart is just staying with the upstream option.


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Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 12, 2012 22:52 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

" your info about RHEL conflicts with other posters here."

I have given you a public source from the company's roadmap slides presented in the company conference and your answer is this embarrassing hand waving?

" do you really think that if Debian abandons upstart for OpenRC that Ubuntu will not follow along?"

This is a poorly phrased question. Debian is not using Upstart now by default. So there is no real question of them abandoning it and yes, Ubuntu might very well decide not to follow if Debian decides to switch to OpenRC or Systemd considering how much they have invested in Upstart and that is quite understandable. Ubuntu has done considerably different things from Debian in many ways including the installer, Unity etc and there is no reason to automatically assume they will follow Debian in this case.

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 0:06 UTC (Thu) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link]

> Debian is not using upstart now by default.

actually, if I do an upgrade of a Debian system, it prompts me to convert to upstart from a sysv init. If this isn't using upstart by default, what is it?

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 2:52 UTC (Thu) by guillemj (subscriber, #49706) [Link]

> > Debian is not using upstart now by default.

That's right.

> actually, if I do an upgrade of a Debian system, it prompts me to convert to upstart from a sysv init. If this isn't using upstart by default, what is it?

The upstart package in Debian is not Essential, it's not on the base system either (Priority extra), and there's nothing except for live-config-upstart depending on it. So if it's being pulled in on an upgrade that's most probably some third party package doing that, either that or it got selected for upgrade at some point?

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 2:59 UTC (Thu) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link]

I ran into it on the raspberry pi debian image. installing it and doing apt-get update; apt-get upgrade includes getting a question along the lines of "this upgrade will switch you to a dependancy based init, this cannot be reversed, do you want to do this" I'm assuming that this is moving to upstart.

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 3:00 UTC (Thu) by clint (subscriber, #7076) [Link]

No, that is insserv, which comes from SuSE.

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 20:21 UTC (Thu) by Tester (guest, #40675) [Link]

And interestingly, OpenSuSe is also going the systemd way

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 2:59 UTC (Thu) by clint (subscriber, #7076) [Link]

There is no way an automatic upgrade should install the upstart package for you.

Bazaar on the slow track

Posted Sep 13, 2012 18:23 UTC (Thu) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

You misunderstand. It asks you whether to switch to a dependency-based (i.e. possibly-in-parallel) execution sequence of init jobs. That's a somewhat more intelligent version of sysv-rc, but it's still sysv-rc, not upstart or systemd or whatever.

Anyway, there are upstart and systemd packages in Debian.
I don't know about upstart, but systemd works really well there.

Debian is probably going to do its usual thing and support both systemd and sysv-rc and/pr openrc and probably upstart long-term -- if for no other reason that tthe fact that systemd contains too many Linux-specific bits and pieces; debian wants to be able to run on top of FreeBSD kernels.

Now let's drop this side discussion and go back to VCS bashing please. ,-)


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