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Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Aug 31, 2012 1:18 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K by landley
Parent article: The new Java 0Day examined (The H)

Wrong. Java was widely used for non-Y2K projects. It's widely used _now_ in Android for the same reasons.

Mostly because it's the only real (non-toy) cross-platform static language with a performant VM.


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Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Aug 31, 2012 2:07 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

Well said. While the language can be painful and cumbersome to program into, it's simply the only serious offer with these three properties.

By the way a number of other languages also compile into java bytecode.

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Aug 31, 2012 9:57 UTC (Fri) by job (guest, #670) [Link]

To be fair, the main reason why it's used in Android is its market share (see: Y2K).

Android had to be quick to market (built on Linux), and accessible to programmers (Java), in order to present itself as an aquisition target. Had Android been developed inside Google it might very well have been done differently. I often fantasize about an Android built on Python instead.

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Aug 31, 2012 14:13 UTC (Fri) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

Java + Linux dominated the more full fledged embedded development scene. That is why Android uses it. It has nothing to do with Y2k because people essentially rewrote their applications for each product.

Java is still extraordinarily popular language for enterprise server applications.

That is because it's the only real VM and it is the only significant competitor to .NET.

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Aug 31, 2012 16:20 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

..shudder..

Android-on-Python would have been even more slower (Java is a _fast_ interpreted language) and without possibility for enhancements (JITs for Java are commonplace, JITs for Python are not).

And of course, lack of static typing.

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Sep 1, 2012 23:06 UTC (Sat) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

Android-on-Python would have been even more slower (Java is a _fast_ interpreted language) and without possibility for enhancements (JITs for Java are commonplace, JITs for Python are not).

PyPy is supposed to be very good indeed.

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Sep 2, 2012 3:28 UTC (Sun) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

And it requires about 20 times more RAM than Dalvik's JIT and _still_ produces inferior code.

We're using a lot of Python (and numpy) code in our R&D and so I've tested all possible ways to make Python work faster. They all suck in various ways.

Java is modern cobol thanks to Y2K

Posted Sep 7, 2012 13:33 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

Care to describe "all possible ways"?

Within Google - I'm guessing that you and another prominent commenter on LWN work there given the numerous "nod and wink" references to various projects - there have apparently been a number of projects to improve Python performance and/or predictability, some being very widely known and others only barely surfacing on the radar of the most central Python core developers (many of whom also seem to be at Google), so I'd be interested to hear what you've looked at.


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