Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 17, 2012 7:56 UTC (Tue) by gnu_andrew (guest, #49515)
In reply to: Left by Rawhide by marduk
Parent article: Left by Rawhide

This is exactly why I use Gentoo. It baffles me how people can handle having a regular slew of new binary blobs to update to, with no idea of the changes contained within. I guess I just don't trust developers that much with my system, and experience has generally proved me correct.

For me, there are two models I can work with; the Gentoo model, which is close to how I believe FOSS should work, giving you full control over which updates to bring in and allowing you to create your own unique system, and the RHEL/Debian Stable model, which is like a FOSS Windows/MacOS model where everything stays visibly the same (bar security updates and major fixes) and then you choose some apocalyptic moment to do that big upgrade to the new shiny major version. Fedora, Ubuntu, etc have something in between which just doesn't work for me.

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Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 17, 2012 11:56 UTC (Tue) by jwakely (subscriber, #60262) [Link]

> It baffles me how people can handle having a regular slew of new binary blobs to update to, with no idea of the changes contained within.

Would you prefer if the people writing kernel drivers for you, or writing the compiler you use, or breaking your desktop environment for you, stopped doing that because they spent their time reviewing all the code in the updates to their own systems? (OK, maybe the desktop guys ;-)

As someone who produces FOSS as well as consuming it I spend far too much of my own time working on a single project, I have no desire to review all the other projects I rely on. I'd rather just take the updates and live with the occasional fits of rage when something seemingly stupid gets done to my system!

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 17, 2012 15:57 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (5 responses)

> It baffles me how people can handle having a regular slew of new binary blobs to update to, with no idea of the changes contained within.

Generally speaking people keep change logs.

> I guess I just don't trust developers that much with my system, and experience has generally proved me correct.

So the developers that write your software are not good enough to compile it?

What a bizarre concept.

And the developers that write the scripts you use to compile everything, and blindly download and execute via portage, are going to do a much better job?

> For me, there are two models I can work with; the Gentoo model, which is close to how I believe FOSS should work, giving you full control over which updates to bring in and allowing you to create your own unique system,

I don't want full control. I want to hand control over to people that are competent and know what they are doing better then myself. Instead of micromanaging everything I want to only be forced to manage what really matters to me and the task at hand.

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 18, 2012 20:24 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (4 responses)

I don't want full control. I want to hand control over to people that are competent and know what they are doing better then myself.

And that's a fundamental difference that you'll never resolve by arguing about it. I'm a control freak -- I got involved with computers in the first place (aged six) entirely because the things were perfect servants that will do precisely what you ask (as long as you can describe it well enough) and can in principle be completely understood. As a consequence, I consider binary-package distros to be a violation of the fundamental reason I use computers in the first place -- control.

But I'm also quite aware that most people just consider the things tools, not totally controllable havens, and I can understand why if you think of your computer as a tool you might be willing to prioritize things that make it a better tool over control issues you don't care about.

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 20, 2012 5:28 UTC (Fri) by dirtyepic (guest, #30178) [Link] (3 responses)

Well put. When I first started using Linux I tried several binary distros but I kept finding myself attempting to compile mplayer from source and installing gcc prereleases. After a few Linux From Scratch installs I realized I would never be able to maintain an entire distro on my own and still have time for extracurricular activities like sleeping. So I switched to Gentoo, where I can focus my attention on what interests me and leave the rest to be managed by someone else who knows a lot more about those areas.

Gentoo is a distro for the obsessive compulsive. Most people don't get it, and they never will, and that's fine.

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 20, 2012 12:42 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

When I first started using Linux I tried several binary distros but I kept finding myself attempting to compile mplayer from source and installing gcc prereleases. After a few Linux From Scratch installs I realized I would never be able to maintain an entire distro on my own and still have time for extracurricular activities like sleeping.

And they say free software is not a drug. :)

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 20, 2012 22:49 UTC (Fri) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link] (1 responses)

Meh. With Debian you also have control over the parts that you find interesting, you can compile from source and generate your own packages, but the default is to leave things alone. To our beloved editor: do not listen to these guys, for regular obsessive people Gentoo.gets old pretty quick. You sound like you want Debian testing, all of the fun but little unpredictability!

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 21, 2012 3:16 UTC (Sat) by dirtyepic (guest, #30178) [Link]

It was between Debian and Gentoo and maybe Slackware, but Gentoo's install was closer to LFS' so I tried it first. Now they made me a developer so I suppose I should stick around. For what it's worth, I agree that our editor would probably be happier with Debian or another of the suggestions.

Some people buy a boat to relax. Some people build one in their basement. In the end it's just personal preference.

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 17, 2012 17:19 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link] (1 responses)

> It baffles me how people can handle having a regular slew of new binary blobs to update to, with no idea of the changes contained within.

If you are just blindly compiling the source you download without a detailed audit than there is no functional or security difference. It sounds like you are ascribing magical properties to the source code, as if compiling makes your system more "pure".

Left by Rawhide

Posted Jul 18, 2012 3:24 UTC (Wed) by AngryChris (subscriber, #74783) [Link]

It sounds like he's going to end up here: http://funroll-loops.info/