US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 11, 2012 22:06 UTC (Mon) by AlleyTrotter (guest, #72997) [Link]
LOL
john
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 0:47 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
How much money will go to MS for every Linux-powered computer?
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 6:07 UTC (Tue) by Cato (subscriber, #7643) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 6:29 UTC (Tue) by jackb (guest, #41909) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 13:23 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]
for the record,
I find the use of drones against civilian populations, especially by the USA CIA and State Department, to be utterly abhorrent.
Probably violates international laws in a number of different ways (not that I care to much personally about that in comparison to other more significant moral issues.) Such as using civilian contractors and government employees to operate military weapons against unarmed people.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 18:55 UTC (Tue) by raf (guest, #35151) [Link]
I think they're talking about the ground systems, not the flight systems. Linux is common for ground-control computers and less common for flight software.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:56 UTC (Tue) by AlleyTrotter (guest, #72997) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 15:13 UTC (Tue) by pflugstad (subscriber, #224) [Link]
These are NOT "commercial" boxes, so no, you won't be able to buy one.
The Navy contract almost certainly will specify that Raytheon will deliver N (168+spares) boxes with capability Y (UAV ground control station).
Raytheon will probably buy the basic parts (motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc) from white box suppliers, likely using industrial/military grade parts and boards. Given that, I'd be surprised if these boards had UEFI at all - industrial/military suppliers typically spend as little as possible on the BIOS, so unless it's necessary to simply boot the box, they won't include it.
Raytheon will build N+M boxes where M is whatever they need to test and for spares, but no more. All N will be delivered to the Navy. The software will likely be owned by the US Govt.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 11:12 UTC (Wed) by JanC_ (subscriber, #34940) [Link]
Instead of buying and assembling white box parts, I'd expect them to buy standard or custom rugged computers & displays from a company like Barco, then add custom software & peripherals... (Barco has sold these devices to US navy contractors before, and they had to be delivered with linux back then too).
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:40 UTC (Tue) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link]
(Before anyone replies about Coreboot, it's just not statistically relevant, sorry.)
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 4:31 UTC (Tue) by magfr (subscriber, #16052) [Link]
Assume that someone fires a cruise missile on you and that there is a GPL component in the cruise missile.
Further assume that the missile is a dud. Ain't you lucky?
Now, you have recieved a device with a copy of GPL software, and we can assume that you aren't part of the senders organization, so I suppose there have to be a written offer somewhere on the missile where you could ask for a copy of the software.
What happens if you exercise your rights? The GPL does not say that the sender can't send a commando team to deliver your code (and execute you) so would you dare to use the rights? (Incidentally I think it do say that they can't charge you for the commando team but that is not much help in this situation)
Is this a loophole in the GPL?
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 4:37 UTC (Tue) by tnoo (subscriber, #20427) [Link]
Linux distribution
Posted Jun 12, 2012 4:40 UTC (Tue) by tnoo (subscriber, #20427) [Link]
Linux distribution
Posted Jun 12, 2012 7:12 UTC (Tue) by spaetz (subscriber, #32870) [Link]
Linux distribution
Posted Jun 12, 2012 23:44 UTC (Tue) by Pc5Y9sbv (guest, #41328) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 5:21 UTC (Tue) by atai (subscriber, #10977) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:27 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 14:34 UTC (Tue) by dashesy (guest, #74652) [Link]
Well, the address is exactly specified somewhere, so it cannot be a theft, they only perform the act of opening the attachment to an unusual form of distribution. However, since they most likely redistribute the code to their northern neighbor, there might be a problem if there is any trade secrets.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 19:12 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]
You could think of it as something like a Tivo box, but without even the acknowledgement that someone else is allowed to operate the software.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:06 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-United_States_copyrigh...
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 11:24 UTC (Wed) by JanC_ (subscriber, #34940) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 6:00 UTC (Tue) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link]
from http://www.cendi.gov/publications/04-8copyright.html
> 5.1.1 Does the U.S. Government have any special rights to use copyrighted
> material?
>
> No, the U.S. Government can be held liable for violation of the Copyright
> Laws. Congress has expressly provided that a work protected by the
> Copyright Laws can be infringed by the United States (28 USC §
> 1498(b))117. The exclusive action for such infringement is an action by
> the copyright owner against the United States in the Court of Federal
> Claims for the recovery of monetary damages. However, there is no
> contributory copyright infringement on the part of the Government because
> it hasn't waived sovereign immunity rights. (John C. Boyle, 200 F.3d 1369
> (Fed. Cir. 2000)118.
>
> While the Government may rely on fair use, the use of materials by the
> Government is not automatically a fair use. The U.S. Department of
> Justice, Office of Legal Counsel, has stated in a U.S. Department of
> Justice opinion dated April 30, 1999,119 that "while government
> reproduction of copyrighted material for governmental use would in many
> contexts be non-infringing because it would be a 'fair use' under 17 USC §
> 107, there is no 'per se' rule under which such government reproduction of
> copyrighted material invariably qualifies as a fair use."
Now I guess we get to argue over whether extrajudicial executions constitue "fair use." I wonder what the MPAA's position would be?
Also, if the source comes with a commando squad attached, that hardly seems to be the "preferred form."
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 6:15 UTC (Tue) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link]
yeah... I'm definitely taking your post a little too seriously... heh.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 7:19 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:06 UTC (Tue) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]
"But your honour, I only intended to use that public ftp server as a backup of my music/film/software collection, it wasn't intended as filesharing"
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 11:00 UTC (Tue) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
End of the day, The US government is in a unique position in that it can redefine the rules for itself at the drop of a hat. Already there are clauses in the US code which set statutory limits on damages the federal government can pay as well to a US citizen who makes an infringement claim. And in fact those clauses actually define a concept of willful intent to set the damage aware(so yes intent does come into play to some extent). However compared to the cost of the lost munition itself, the maximum capped damage award is really not that big of a cost. I fully expect that if the issue of munitions (or generally captured US military equipment) comes up for discussion in a court room Congress will feel the urge to carve this out as an explicit fair-use case without losing much sleep over it.
The DoD is doing the bulk of protecting itself by demanding contractors hand over ownership of any proprietary code to the Defense Department instead of holding on to it as a contractor. Which is interesting...
But the real question I have, and I'm sure this will actually be put to the test at some point is the following. Is the federal government really one entity or does distribution clauses latch when one governmental agency hands code to another agency? Is the Defense department itself one entity? Handing code between the Navy and the Airforce..does that latch the distribution clause? They have their own separate logistics and r&d budgets..managed as separate from a day-to-day logistics pov. If they share it with Homeland...is it distribution? I'm really not sure that the federal government can be view as one entity for the purposes of distribution. I'm not even sure the DoD should be view that way...considering how compartmentalized and resource competitive each agency inside the DoD is with the others.
-jef
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 11:22 UTC (Tue) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link]
Presumably the US Navy has no qualms distributing the source to the US Air Force...
Entities
Posted Jun 12, 2012 14:13 UTC (Tue) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]
Entities
Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:27 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:08 UTC (Tue) by xtifr (subscriber, #143) [Link]
In the case of your ftp site, the fact that you set it up for public access is likely to be a strong counter-argument to your claim that it was for personal use. Especially if it can be shown that you knew how to set up a private ftp site and/or the plaintiffs can find any evidence that you revealed the site's existence to others.
Intent is why "loopholes" in the GPL, like distributing patches-only, generally don't work (ask NeXT about this one).
On the flip side, with the missiles, if the enemy capturing a missile and reverse-engineering it were to count as distribution, then it probably wouldn't be safe to use any software except BSD-licensed. Microsoft would be no happier about having their code copied than a GPL author.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:01 UTC (Tue) by freemars (subscriber, #4235) [Link]
The question here is intent, and the intent of someone launching a missile at you is that the missile should explode.
...
should probably not be counted as distribution
The intent is widespread distribution. Clearly a violation.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:39 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:03 UTC (Tue) by etienne (guest, #25256) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:29 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 7:58 UTC (Tue) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]
(Incidentally I think it do say that they can't charge you for the commando team but that is not much help in this situation)
They can charge you, but no more than "reasonable". Anybody knows how much is a commando mission these days?
From the GPL v.3:
"6.b) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, to give anyone who possesses the object code either (1) a copy of the Corresponding Source for all the software in the product that is covered by this License, on a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange, for a price no more than your reasonable cost of physically performing this conveying of source, or (2) access to copy the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge."
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:07 UTC (Tue) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 13:33 UTC (Tue) by sorpigal (subscriber, #36106) [Link]
Never underestimate the physical, durable nature of a commando team carrying backup tapes.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 14, 2012 16:07 UTC (Thu) by Mity (guest, #85011) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 10:40 UTC (Tue) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]
I can't see any loophole here. US Navy has mainly two options:
The latter option is cheaper, the former option is preferable from a military POV (second chance to kill your enemy a.k.a. innocent children).
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:06 UTC (Tue) by markhb (guest, #1003) [Link]
1) the drones in this instance are actually reconnaissance platforms, not warhead-carrying missiles, and their intended use involves them returning to their launching site rather than exploding, and
2) the Linux software in question is for ground control, and therefore presumably will stay at the ground control site in Maryland rather than actually being loaded onto the drones themselves
... right?
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:46 UTC (Tue) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:46 UTC (Tue) by etienne (guest, #25256) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 14:35 UTC (Tue) by ewan (subscriber, #5533) [Link]
From the article: "can also be fitted 70mm rockets as needed for other missions".Presumably those are reconnaissance rockets then.
the /rocket/ isn't running Linux
Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:14 UTC (Tue) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
It is quite normal for a reconnaissance mission to be armed. Military forces rarely perform reconnaissance missions on targets known to be friendly, that would be pointless. The distinction from an attack is that the primary _goal_ of the mission is to obtain information.
If they just want to blow something up from a long way away they don't need a drone, ballistic missiles have been available for more than half a century.
the /rocket/ isn't running Linux
Posted Jun 12, 2012 16:40 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]
Of course nowadays they have have given up the pretense and lies about the planned uses of unmanned drones, so these may really be just for reconnaissance. They have much larger and more powerful drones for carrying a wide variety of ordinance now then they had in the past.
Right now I expect they are aiming to eliminate the need for civilian contractors to handle the drones in a Xbox fashion. Maybe the goal with these is to explore and establish the procedures of more more autonomous craft. So they can reduce the number of operational people needed in large scale sorties. So before with older systems you'd need 20 operators for 10 drones you might get away with 20 operators for 200 or 300 drones.
As far as drones vs cruise missiles; I am sure that drones have a number of advantages over cruise missiles. One of them is, I expect, they can loiter over a area for long periods of time and be used to identify targets before striking. That way when they bomb a residence of 20 or 30 people the lawyers in the State Department and/or the Military can be reasonably sure that at least one of them is a likely target. Since hte drone is weaponized and already in the area you don't have to wait long before the approval process to finished before you carry out the actually attack. Another likely advantage is that larger drones can be used to carry multiple warheads and weapon platforms that will give them more flexibility and multiple strike capabilities that older more primitive cruise missiles lacked. Especially for 'soft targets'. And in addition they are re-usable so the total operational of cost over a period of months or years is much less then with using a long string of big cruise missiles.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 5:31 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 15:37 UTC (Tue) by SiliconSlick (subscriber, #39955) [Link]
I could see that leading to some very rapid development... at least in the short term.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 16:14 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 12:01 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]
The US Navy will "mail" you a copy of the source on another missile, I guess. If the mechanism is good enough to convey the binary code, it should be good enough to convey the source. :)
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 13:08 UTC (Tue) by Tara_Li (subscriber, #26706) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 10:04 UTC (Wed) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715) [Link]
Well there are using a GPLv2 kernel ... this does not imply that everything else is GPL.
They could as well just have a userspace application that has the "secret bits" which is using some proprietary license.
Also firing a missile is no way "distribution".
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Dec 5, 2012 14:16 UTC (Wed) by ekram (guest, #70515) [Link]
If not, what's the difference?
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 18:11 UTC (Tue) by jaldhar (guest, #7476) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 18:58 UTC (Tue) by endecotp (guest, #36428) [Link]
Personally, I feel sick at the thought that someone might have taken software that I wrote and used it to kill people. I've always thought this way about my contributions to free software projects and it has limited my contributions to "dual use" software like the kernel.
It has always surprised me that so few people seem to think this way, and that so little software is licensed in a way that attempts to control what it can be used for. Is this because developers actually support the use of their code in weapons? Is it because they haven't considered the possibility that this could happen? Is it because they consider the freedoms of free software to be more important than the right to not be blown up? Some other reasons?
Please share your thoughts.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 19:37 UTC (Tue) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link]
This is why licenses are not considered Open Source or Free Software if they do impose field of use restrictions.
And yes, this includes that they can be used by laser wielding sharks.
I know that it's fashionable nowdays to consider any military use evil, but there is a lot of technology that was developed for military uses that has resulted is great benefit for mankind (the Internet being one minor example)
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 23:34 UTC (Tue) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link]
If that means that you must release it under a license which causes people not to want to use it as much, that's the price you pay.
It is my understanding that due diligence was put into whether field-of-use restrictions should be allowed into licenses under the OSI definition, but you could always check with ESR; he was there.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 20:15 UTC (Wed) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
I could not parse this sentence. Help?
anyway, for reference, OSD clause #6:
6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor
The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.
Rationale: The major intention of this clause is to prohibit license traps that prevent open source from being used commercially. We want commercial users to join our community, not feel excluded from it.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 15, 2012 2:57 UTC (Fri) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 15, 2012 12:17 UTC (Fri) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
And yes, they exercised a lot of due diligence -- I am old enough to remember the discussions that lead to the OSI OSD and to the DFSG and associated Desert Island, Dissident, and Tentacles of Evil tests.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 21:22 UTC (Tue) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link]
People have the right not to be blown up--provided, naturally, that they're not trying to blow other people up--regardless of whatever you might choose to put in a software license. Writing "you may not use this software to violate others' rights" is superfluous, and just complicates matters for no reason. If you can't contribute to a project knowing that it might be twisted by someone else to cause harm, then you might as well give up on ever doing anything good for anyone.
Keep in mind that no matter what you put in the license, it's eventually going to become public domain. No matter how hard you try, you can't control it forever, and even if you could, it wouldn't prevent others from reimplementing the same thing under a different license. You're not going to stop any missiles from being launched by withholding militarily-neutral contributions to Linux. Just avoid areas whose use is predominantly aggressive.
Recursive argumentation
Posted Jun 13, 2012 7:46 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
People have the right not to be blown up--provided, naturally, that they're not trying to blow other people upJust wanted to point out how dangerous that argument is, when applied recursively. At this point, would it be OK to blow up the US army and the Nobel Peace Prize that orders the bombings where many innocent people have died? Have they lost their right not to be blown up? Logic would command that people keep their right not to be blown up, even after blowing other people up. How are the bombings going to stop otherwise?
The differences in opinion about moral issues are another reason that software licenses should better not include them.
Recursive argumentation
Posted Jun 13, 2012 16:35 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link]
I don't know about the Nobel Peace Prize, but certainly individual members of the U.S. Army have initiated a number of unprovoked attacks against non-aggressors. Their victims have a right to respond in kind. Note, however, that there is no "guilt by association"; not all members of the Army are aggressors, just those who participated in, or otherwise chose to contribute to, the attacks. An indiscriminate response would be as much aggression as the original attack.
> Logic would command that people keep their right not to be blown up, even after blowing other people up.
You're trying to argue that your conclusion is logical just because you don't like the alternative, which is a fallacy. Logic (in the form of the legal principle of estoppel) dictates that when some individual attacks you, they can make no logical argument that it would be wrong for you to attack them without condemning their own action--and if they can perform an action which they acknowledge to be wrong without inviting punishment, then there is no logical reason why you can't do the same to them.
> How are the bombings going to stop otherwise?
First, just because you have the right to respond in kind doesn't mean you are forced to do so. Second, responding in self-defense against an attacker is not equivalent to acting as the aggressor, and does not invite reprisal the way an initial, aggressive attack does. If you can initiate an attack then you can also respond to one, but the reverse is not necessarily true. Finally, there is the principle of proportional response to consider; the one who _escalates_ the attack is in the wrong, even if they were originally the victim.
Recursive argumentation
Posted Jun 13, 2012 19:54 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
I think that many centuries of absurd rivalries between families (see Romeo and Juliet for a lyricized version, and there are many modern examples) have taught us that such an arithmetic of death does not always work out. Repaying in kind cannot always be done surgically (even in these modern times and with remote drones), there are errors and collateral victims, and those innocent bystanders have families who are not usually happy about it.Morally, if not logically, the mere possibility of an innocent victim should preclude engaging in any further attacks. I very much prefer the way of dealing with IRA in UK (and now ETA in Spain) than with Al Qaeda. Of course it is very easy to talk when the victims do not come from your family; it has the most value when you know the victims. I read an article recently that seems appropriate: No, It Has Not 'Always Been This Way'.
Recursive argumentation
Posted Jun 13, 2012 21:05 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link]
You have the right not to respond, if that is your wish. You can even try to persuade others to adopt your views. If someone does choose to respond, however, then that is _their_ right. They will be responsible for any consequences, intended or otherwise. If you tried to stand in their way, _you_ would be the aggressor, attacking without provocation.
Recursive argumentation
Posted Jun 13, 2012 21:35 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
If someone does choose to respond, however, then that is _their_ right.A curious kind of "right", not recognized by most legislations or even international treaties. Not to mention philosophical systems or even religions (anything more sophisticated than the code of Hammurabi or the Old Testament's "an eye for an eye"). I thought that the civilized world had agreed long ago that outlawing such vigilante practices was "progress", but apparently regressions happen outside software too.
Now I will take the liberty of recommending you a movie: The Beast of War (1988), about an earlier Afghanistan war.
Recursive argumentation
Posted Jun 13, 2012 22:37 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link]
That's not at all surprising. Legislatures and government representatives involved in treaties tend to ignore natural rights, since their very existence conflicts with them. They also like to deny people their inherent right to self-defense in order to make them more dependent.
> Not to mention philosophical systems or even religions....
Not that it matters, but you're glossing over quite a few philosophical systems here, modern and otherwise. The standard libertarian philosophy based on the Non-Aggression Principle, for example, or really _any_ system of natural rights which does not amount to pacifism, and thus must endorse self-defense to at least some degree. Even the ones which prohibit _personal_ self-defense still tend to allow for both restitution and, for cases of deliberate harm, retribution. They just require one to act through an intermediary (the state, in the form of civil and criminal law). In this case the state is committed to enforcing your rights in some ways (albeit poorly), while infringing on them in others.
Religions deal in right and wrong, not rights, so that's an entirely different issue. Whether it is right or wrong to respond in kind to an aggressive attack is orthogonal to whether the response is _justifiable_--whether the other party can object to the response without hypocrisy. The great thing about the estoppel approach to crime and punishment is that it doesn't matter whether the original action was right or wrong. You don't have to consider the _morality_ if it at all, which is what allows it to work objectively even when the individuals involved don't share a particular moral code. All that matters is that you can't logically object to someone else acting toward you just as you have chosen to act toward them.
Sophistic licenses
Posted Jun 12, 2012 23:31 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
In principle I share your concerns. However the alternative (limit uses via licensing) seems not only ridiculously ineffective but also legally dangerous.To take this argument to the extreme, consider the JSON license: "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil". Who is going to judge if the license is being correctly used? The fact is that nobody recognizes that they are doing evil; at most they will say that they are "protecting their interests". Shall we leave this decision for a judge or for a jury? From this point of view it seems like a sophistic question.
Any such license is also scary from a legal point of view: if Crockford thinks that our particular use of JSON software is evil (e.g. because we use tabs to indent), is he going to come after us? Any organization with good legal counsel will avoid such "ethical" licenses like the plague, leaving poorly managed organizations and individuals. Perhaps good enough for MPlayer, but hardly for the Linux kernel or for Debian.
So in practice not limiting uses of software by ethics seems the best course of action. Even Stallman (an eminently political guy) does not want to limit uses of GPL code.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 8:10 UTC (Wed) by nhippi (subscriber, #34640) [Link]
1) The big people are going to walk over your use restrictions anyways. The US government forced Wright brothers to share their airplane patent with others to ensure supply of planes for WW1. Rogue people meanwhile are just going to ignore your restrictions.
2) Defining "bad use" is tricky. some examples:
"may not be used for killing"
Would that ban use at euthanasia clinic or abortion clinic? How about a company that provides services to the clinics? etc.
"no army may use it"
So DARPA could not have used while developing internet. Meanwhile, Blackwater would had no problems using it.
3) "bad use" restrictions might become outdated. For example a OSS software had a restriction disallowing use in South Africa (Due to Apartheid). Apartheid went, but the restriction remained.
It gets really messy as soon as you have several programs with different use restrictions.
Hence, Debian (and later OSI) adopted that to be a free software license, the license may have no discrimination against people or fields of endeavor.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 16:00 UTC (Wed) by endecotp (guest, #36428) [Link]
Yes, of course there are problems. What interests me is that the general view seems to be "there are problems, so we'll continue to write code that can be used in ways that we don't like".
The alternative, which I'd advocate, would be "there are problems, and unless or until someone smart fixes them we won't write or distribute code that can be used in ways that we don't like".
I am literally the only person who thinks this way?
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 16:38 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link]
This amount to, "we won't write or distribute code, ever." There is no general solution to the problems you're talking about, and certainly not in the form of a copyright license.
> I am literally the only person who thinks this way?
No, but fortunately this sort of block is exceedingly rare, or the free software movement would never have occurred in the first place.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 14, 2012 6:07 UTC (Thu) by nhippi (subscriber, #34640) [Link]
> I am literally the only person who thinks this way?
I think most people think that would be a noble position but a incredibly bad trade-off. Any restrictions you put on use of your code are based on law. But, the writer of law, government, can choose to change that at any time. Meanwhile, unlawful groups will ignore it. That's a fundamentally unfixable problem that no amount of smartness will help.
Ah irony. Internet? TCP/IP? ENIAC?
Posted Jun 15, 2012 21:07 UTC (Fri) by david.a.wheeler (subscriber, #72896) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 20:50 UTC (Wed) by cjwatson (subscriber, #7322) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 21:27 UTC (Wed) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 21:35 UTC (Wed) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]
That, or someone would come up with a wheeze like passing a law exempting the government from honoring field-of-use restrictions.
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 12, 2012 19:00 UTC (Tue) by szoth (subscriber, #14825) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 13, 2012 7:12 UTC (Wed) by dakt (guest, #74570) [Link]
US Navy buys Linux to guide drone fleet (The Register)
Posted Jun 14, 2012 20:28 UTC (Thu) by szoth (subscriber, #14825) [Link]
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