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Quotes of the week

I'm starting to think about my annual PyCon keynote. I don't want it to be just a feel-good motivational speech (I'm no good at those), nor a dry "state of the Python union" talk (I'm bored with those), but I'd like to hear what Python users care about.
-- Guido van Rossum seeks suggestions

From my biased point of view, in just over one year, colord has gone from concept to being included on nearly all distros by default. It's pulled in as multiple things like GTK and CUPS as a dependency. It's my firm belief that color management should be usable by real people without having to install or configure anything. I'm offering to help hackers in the KDE community build simple GUI code on top of colord. You guys get a color management system that works, and I get more users using my stuff. It's a win-win situation.
-- Richard Hughes
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Quotes of the week

Posted Feb 23, 2012 18:55 UTC (Thu) by lacos (subscriber, #70616) [Link]

"colord has gone from concept to being included on nearly all distros by default. It's pulled in as multiple things like GTK and CUPS as a dependency"

Please make at most the client library mandatory, and running/installing the daemon optional. I just went through <http://www.freedesktop.org/software/colord/intro.html> and I still don't have the slightest idea why I would need it. (As consolation I'll share that I always had the same feeling when reading articles about display calibration.)

Quotes of the week

Posted Feb 23, 2012 19:31 UTC (Thu) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

You need it if you ever manipulate a photo on your computer or create an image from scratch. Or want to see another person's photo or image with the colors they intended. Lots of people don't care, but on the other hand, lots of people who don't care, probably should care since they don't get a good experience now.

That said, in fact there has already been work going on for some time to integrate color management into KDE, but using the Oyranos cmm... Which predates colord, as is clear from the thread this quote is taken from.

Personally, I was disappointed with the tone of Richard's blog post and the way he describes his interaction with KDE people on, for instance, the Gnome Foundation mailing list.

"I am a little disappointed in KDE that it hasn’t made the jump too."

Yeah, we already were working on a solution. Let's throw all our work away! And colord _is_ a NIH project, started by Richard who disregarded all the work that was already being done. He managed to push it into Fedora and Gnome, which seems to make it a "standard". Which is not a surprise, that's the usual way "innovation" in Linux happens.

"I end up doing so much extra work for the KDE desktop and get virtually nothing back." (https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2011-Dece...)

No, that's a big surprise. It's time people learn that the right way to cooperate is not to claim a space on freedesktop.org, develop a gnome technology and declare it a standard, and then ask for cooperation.

I've always respected Richard, had pleasant enough interactions with him, and even tried to buy one of his calibration thingies (never heard back from him, though), and for Krita, I made sure that Krita would work fine with colord under Gnome. But I'm a bit through with this attitude.

Not to mention that most artists have been leaving Gnome since about half a year, that trend is very clear from what I hear from my users and see from my bug reports. A year ago, most Krita users would be using Gnome, and that's definitely no longer true.

Quotes of the week

Posted Feb 24, 2012 9:04 UTC (Fri) by jezuch (subscriber, #52988) [Link]

> You need it if you ever manipulate a photo on your computer or create an image from scratch. Or want to see another person's photo or image with the colors they intended. Lots of people don't care, but on the other hand, lots of people who don't care, probably should care since they don't get a good experience now.

Some anecdotal evidence: the other day a female friend of mine was inspecting some fabrics for her new dress. She sent me some images of cobalt blue and I liked it. I like blue. Then she sent the same images to her roommate, who saw it on his monitor and said: but it's purple! You see, it can be *that* bad. And people *do* care but they don't know they do. Most of them never heard of screen calibration. Some maybe remember that monitors have knobs to regulate some parameters, but I think that's rare. Oh, and the roommate is a computer geek, too.

Quotes of the week

Posted Feb 24, 2012 9:33 UTC (Fri) by lacos (subscriber, #70616) [Link]

"she sent the same images to her roommate"

I think this use case is unfixable by software. You can aim at the same person perceiving the same color on different display devices, if that specific person calibrates all the devices (or selects the profiles). I doubt you could ever get two people to perceive the same RGB value on the same display as the same visual stimulation, and to capture it with the same words.

When I look at a piece of cloth simultaneously with my wife (real time, same place, no display device involved), we regularly call it different colors. You'd have to calibrate eyes and brains to get consensus.

I think this idea is blown way out of proportion. I mean, everyone go ahead if you feel you need color calibration, just don't foist yet another daemon on me. Give me an opt-out.

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 1, 2012 6:55 UTC (Thu) by gwg (guest, #20811) [Link]

> You'd have to calibrate eyes and brains to get consensus.

Eyes are already calibrated by the fact that we're extremely similar
genetically, and it's a very well known calibration:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_1931_color_space>.
There are certainly slight variations between observers, and known changes
as we age, but our person to person match is a whole lot better than two
random displays.

Color naming on the other hand has a large learned component, so yes,
people can disagree fairly widely on how they interpret and describe
what they see. There's been some interesting research on this, for
instance:
<http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1....>

Quotes of the week

Posted Feb 24, 2012 14:16 UTC (Fri) by spaetz (subscriber, #32870) [Link]

http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/

See "color names used when you are a girl" and "color names used when you are a guy" :-)

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 2, 2012 23:41 UTC (Fri) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644) [Link]

Yes, but what do you need a daemon for? What needs coordinating that can't be managed with a shared library?

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 3, 2012 11:48 UTC (Sat) by lacos (subscriber, #70616) [Link]

I have no idea. I took "colord" as a given.

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 4, 2012 19:49 UTC (Sun) by oy (guest, #80450) [Link]

Colour device configuration on user level can be well separated from system level. Look at Oyranos and you will see that in action without any problem. It is as simple as the decision where the configuration DB shall reside.

Quotes of the week

Posted Mar 4, 2012 20:02 UTC (Sun) by oy (guest, #80450) [Link]

The following statement come from me as an OpenICC activist.

The OpenICC group has a very different view of what works in colord and what not. And there remain many critique points not answered from the colord author. The unfortunate effect is that colord and its components hurt all Linux and not just Gnome. A example for that are the bad profiles, which colord provides. These are visible to the whole desktop. And these faked and wrong profiles come from a Gnome colour management expert remaining since months without fix. And there are more known issues.


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