Eclipse revamp to forge path for Sun (News.com) [LWN.net]

News.com reports that the Eclipse project is separating from IBM. "Given the organizational changes under way at Eclipse, Sun is considering joining the open-source project, according to a company representative. Sun wants a number of issues to be addressed before it joins, however. The company may push for a change in the organization's name, along with a resolution of technical problems over how Java applications present information, the representative said."

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About the name

Posted Sep 3, 2003 19:43 UTC (Wed) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link] (3 responses)

If you haven't yet realized, an "eclipse" covers up the sun. If Sun weren't so fearful about IBM running away with Java, they'd be able to open it up more, rather than let .NET walk away with their market.

Bruce

About the name

Posted Sep 3, 2003 21:33 UTC (Wed) by ksmathers (guest, #2353) [Link] (1 responses)

Sun is blinded by WORA. Aside from the tendency of WORA to turn into a race to the least common denominator, distinctiveness in look and feel is part of what attracts users to a system. Contrary to qmail author Daniel Bernstein, I think that it is more important for a system to be self-consistent, than it is for a software product to be consistent across systems; users use more software on a system than they use the same software on different systems. Consequently, WORA is broken from a user perspective.

As long as Sun maintains its allegiance to WORA, Java will remain just as hobbled as Smalltalk. Bruce, as someone who ostensibly speaks for the open source community, I would have expected you to realize that it is diversity, not homogeneity that creates strength and resilience.

WORA

Posted Sep 3, 2003 22:55 UTC (Wed) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link]

I don't think WORA is bad, in its place. Running software on browsers is a perfect justification for WORA. I agree that most Java software runs on platforms where WORA should not be a goal.

Bruce

About the name

Posted Sep 4, 2003 7:07 UTC (Thu) by jwharmanny (guest, #971) [Link]

It's a shame that IBM and Sun don't work together more closely. They are fighting each other while they have a common opponent: .NET.

SWT is far superior to Swing/AWT, from a users perspective. Swing has nice skins, but that's not a solution, it is a workaround for the real problem: users choosing an integrated platform don't like another look-n-feel, especially when alternatives are available. SWT, on the other hand, uses native widgets where possible. Did anybody notice that in the newest milestone (3.0 M3) it can even embed Gecko! I am wondering how long it takes before the first 'create your own browser for dummies' howto will pop up ;)
There was also a QT port, but it was never released because of licensing issues (QT is GPL, which cannot be linked to non-free Java apps.) That's a pity, because SWT had almost achieved the ultimate Linux-integrated-desktop goal: write once, look native on Gnome AND Kde.
More important, SWT compiles with gcj, so it offers a real free Java platform (with native Linux binaries!), while Swing/AWT is (yet) only available as non-free software.

If only IBM and Sun would stop fighting, and join forces to create a real Java/SWT application programming environment with a better SWT API and documentation, that would be really nice. However, it isn't likely that Sun would abandon Swing for a technology, of which the name alone is already an insult.

Eclipse is really quite amazing

Posted Sep 5, 2003 7:59 UTC (Fri) by ahornby (guest, #3366) [Link]

Using xemacs for C++ and Java development I thought I was using a pretty good development environment.

What a shock eclipse was - its amazing how much the quick fixes and assists help out. The way it suggests imports for unknown types, the integrated debugging of code deployed to JBoss, the way it can add exception specs for you etc etc.

If you're still using a traditional editor and are as wary of IDEs as I was I urge you to try it. As someone said "code like you've got three hands!".

The fact that it also has a good native widget set is a bonus.