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yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 7, 2011 15:06 UTC (Sat) by gvy (guest, #11981)
In reply to: yet another peripeteia in the rpm5 saga by haypo
Parent article: Who maintains RPM? (2011 edition)

Well, Dmitry Komissarov's management style has made him an enemy in my person either -- since he has personally harrassed Alexey Novodvorsky and tried to appropriate Stanislav Ievlev's work[1].

They've performed an attempt at headhunting campain after ALT Linux Team folks (this has followed raiding the Russian school project).

The former vice minister in education was involved in a group including Komissarov while also being a co-owner of "IT Academy" which was granted training part of that project and failed it spectacularly[2].

So far things look like:

  • the government has heard of Linux and knows that local expertise does matter;
  • this seems to have led Komissarov to form Rosalab (to qualify for "Russian Linux", after PingWinSoft got heavily contaminated for being a raider) and presumably to the replacement of French developers with Brasilian ones "to cut costs down"[3].

But so far they seem to have failed to execute or at least to deceive well enough.

[1] archived copy (in Russian; see 2010-07-12 06:40 and 2010-07-12 10:57)
[2] here's a cheat sheet (in Russian) by which one can judge the level of teacher training: e.g., "which [ooimpress] menu lets to set up a mouse click action: Help, Format, *Slide show*, Customize"...
[3] I can dig up the company source for that phrase in my archive but it seems to have been public anyway; I know of previous Mandrake/Conectiva merger.


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yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 7, 2011 15:39 UTC (Sat) by proyvind (guest, #74683) [Link]

Well, for the brazilian vs french employment situation, this isn't fully true..

Conectiva employees certainly has a lower costs which is a valuable factor, but this is *not* what caused the people at Edge-IT to leave at all.

What happened was that most people at Edge-IT was offered a new contract with Mandriva, with a few people not being offered a new contract, which was the primary reason for most of the Edge-IT people leaving Mandriva.

Mandriva has hired several people in France since and is still actively hiring, me personally, I'm even from Norway, and if you know anything about Norway, you should know that hiring people from here is expensive (and pretty much everything in this country is) and that people are used to way higher salaries than most other places around. So while it's expensive to live in Norway, people generally doesn't suffer as people make good earnings.

The situation has actually been kinda amusing, making Sweden the Mexico of Scandinavia, due to high unemployment in Sweden these days, a *lot* of young people come from Sweden to take jobs Norwegians are too lazy to take themself, while Norwegians goes across the border to buy booze, sigarettes, pr0n, party ++ for extremely cheap prices compared to Norway.. :p

Also for what Conectiva concerns, after NGI investment got approved, their employees got considerable salary raises, at please to most people over there, so I would ask you not to make too many assumptions about exploitation, mandriva merger etc., especially not speculating on these in public.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 7, 2011 19:06 UTC (Sat) by Ansus (guest, #74724) [Link]

I read the thread to which gvy pointed above and I can confirm that Mr. Komissarov invited Alexey Novodvorsky to a "man's conversation", a phrase which means colloquially an euphemism for hand fighting in Russian, and used mostly by criminals. To remove any ambiguity he promises Mr. Novodvorsky to "account for his old age".

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 16, 2011 16:53 UTC (Mon) by DKomissarov (guest, #74949) [Link]

very interested about my words "used mostly by criminals" :) seriously ?

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 8, 2011 0:50 UTC (Sun) by misc (subscriber, #73730) [Link]

You ask others to not spread wrong facts, so I guess you will accept that I correct some of those that you made.

The primary reason for Edge-it people to leave was not that they were not offered a contract to work again, but because most ( if not all ) didn't trusted the management anymore ( this and the fact that the company was closed of course ). Of the previous Edge-it people ( around 20 people IIRC, likely less ), only 1 person signed again to work to Mandriva.

And I will remind that Mandriva being under chapter 11 protection ( or rather french equivalent ), they couldn't hire anyone except for replacing people leaving. Edge-it contract was also more advantageous for the company ( less paid holidays ) than Mandriva one as it was negotiated, so basically almost all R&D people working in France on the community distribution were working for Edge-IT

The support was half edge-it, half Linbox, and the team for research was Mandriva ( european contracts as Mancoosi, EDOS projects, etc ).

I was at the party to celebrate the end of Edge-it, I had time to discuss a lot of this, and lack of trust in Mandriva management is even cited as one of the reason of creating Mageia ( http://www.mageia.org/en/#announce ).

Moreover, the fact that only some people have been offered a contract is likely a violation of the french laws, as companies are forced in case of economic bankruptcy to do their best to offer a contract, see L1233-4 of the "code du travail".

Even after that part of the story, there was several people leaving since the 6 previous months. The CFO of Mandriva ( Stanislas Bois ) left last month, as well as Vanessa Wall who left 10 days ago ( she was in charge of communication ).

Among others people that I personally knew that left the company is Cedric Delfosse, a old time Linbox employee ( who I worked with some years ago ), and Benjamin Jorand, sysadmin who left in november, letting for a few week no one in charge of svn server except a member of the community.

There was around 15/20 people in the french part of the company and so 4 people leaving in 6 months is a rather high turn-over rate ( around 40% per year at this rate ).

So if they are hiring in France, that's mainly because people are leaving now and leaved before ( fcrozat, pterjan, etc ).

Speaking of Brasil part, we can see that Alexandre Possebom left 2 days ago ( http://twitter.com/#!/possebom/status/66540933826609152 ), the xorg maintainer left 2 months ago ( http://lists.mandriva.com/cooker/2011-03/msg00365.php ) and it seems that Mandriva didn't found someone to take care of xorg since ( http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=134... ).

Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski ( kernel, glibc ) left for Canonical around 3 months ago ( https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/24/287 ). So the situation doesn't seem better there.

Yet, the situation is not so bad as Mandriva 2011 is going to ship as a rc in a few days and final in a 1 month ( unless there is huge planning change, and such last minute modification without discussing with community would be yet another communication error, eroding the remaining trust ).

I would also agree with you and not call this exploitation ( after all, people are paid corresponding to the cost of life of the country in every part of the world and so that's not different from any others company ), but engineers in Brasil are cheaper than in Europa and do the same good job, so yes, it will be seen as unfair.

Mandriva as a company survived to this kind of crisis quite often ( and had to face it too often in the previous years ), yet I do not think that unwarranted optimism due to forgetting some important public facts is a good way to earn back the trust of community.

And that's only for the public facts, if you ask to your future french colleagues, they will explain that their situation today is a bit different than the one you describe.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 9, 2011 13:06 UTC (Mon) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]

Merci. Wish that things come to sanity again, but expecting it to happen "by itself" seems not to work.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 10, 2011 0:28 UTC (Tue) by proyvind (guest, #74683) [Link]

I've speaken to several of my *current* french co-workers, I must admit that there's still some bad feelings about it amongst two of the three (not just one) edge-it people that didn't leave, but beyond that, there's more positive feelings about it. And the Conectiva department is very happy about the change, given the poor behaviour, attitude and respect shown both towards them and other members in the community.

For the real reasons, every Edge-IT employee I spoke with before leaving said that while they did like the new plans of the new investors, they did leave exactly because the few people who weren't offered a new contract, which made them feel like Mandriva wouldn't be the same place to work anymore, thus declining the contract.
People should rather start asking *who* weren't offered a new contract, and what could be the cause of this?
Firing people is a costly process and gives legal hazzles, terminating them during liquidation of a company is a convenient way to do so without technically doing it, just saying.. Not stating..
Having more insight on these details than you probably have, and also about current situation with daily contact with colleagues and management, I think I know more than you'd happen to know and would have the possibility to learn currently, especially considering many of your rants, speculations, lies about mine and others' employment and what not has sort of made you a persona-non-grata amongst several people within company, so I truly doubt you're up to date on many things..

For those not being offered a new contract, for those I know, I can only say way overdue, might sound a bit harsh, but since 2007 I've been seriously considered to abandon the project, driven away just as intended by some of these people..

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 10, 2011 9:20 UTC (Tue) by boklm (guest, #34568) [Link]

> For the real reasons, every Edge-IT employee I spoke with before leaving said that while they did like the new plans of the new investors, they did leave exactly because the few people who weren't offered a new contract, which made them feel like Mandriva wouldn't be the same place to work anymore, thus declining the contract.

I've not heard anyone saying they liked the new plans of the new investors. Actually I don't know how it's possible to like a new plan that you know nothing about.
People were explained by Jean Noel de Galzain that they need not know about what their plans are, it's not their job, "just shut up and go back to your coding".

By the way, nobody was offered a new contract before the declaration of cessation of payments. Some people were offered one after, but leaving edge-it to join mandriva at this time could only be done with some skulduggery.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 11, 2011 22:41 UTC (Wed) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]

Well, let's wait and see how they're going to execute both short- and mid-term (if any). I've started a minimal Mageia mirror in the mean time.

Good luck, folks. We all need a bit of it from time to time.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 16, 2011 16:45 UTC (Mon) by DKomissarov (guest, #74949) [Link]

I personally proposed to Ann Nicolas to stay in Mandriva and create new vision of Mandriva future. But after short period of time, she said "too late and I leave Edge-IT as the all its staff do".

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted Jun 18, 2011 13:50 UTC (Sat) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]

Bravo, Ann!

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 12, 2011 8:25 UTC (Thu) by misc (subscriber, #73730) [Link]

The whole persona no grata is likely a exageration, or the current boss ( Arnaud La Prévote ) just lied to me on the Mandriva booth 5 minutes ago ( on Solution Linux ) when I directly asked the question.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 14, 2011 23:08 UTC (Sat) by proyvind (guest, #74683) [Link]

"has *sort of* made you a persona-non-grata *amongst several people* within company"

read and be sure to understand what's being written and meant, in stead of just picking out parts of context and apply speculative rhetorics in public (where those actually implied usually aren't), and you wouldn't achieve any claims of such..

It's impossible to understand whether there lies any motivations or intended intentions or anything behind what you write (and to be fair, I know you better to make any assumptions of maliciousness or particular agenda), but the conclusions others draw from it and the consequences there of are quite frustrating and often devastating..

I personally find it extremely tiring and discouraging when I repeteadly find others discussing claims regarding me, my character and technical matters in public and behind my back, rather than with me directly. For me personally the result is my credibility, competence and work being undermined, which again has consequences affecting those whom I'm affiliated with..

While I know better than that you'd have any personal vendetta against me, I know for a fact there's several others who do, and to those, you only provide fuel..

I'm extremely tired and fed up, and I'll most likely do my best staying out of public for a period, hoping for others to try their best respect my privacy. Thx.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted May 16, 2011 17:13 UTC (Mon) by DKomissarov (guest, #74949) [Link]

very interested when some people who is:

- not citizen of Russia
- not employee of ALT Linux

say anything in behalf of this company about russian educational projects.

yet another peripeteia in the mandriva saga

Posted Jun 18, 2011 13:49 UTC (Sat) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]

Being no citizen of Russia and no employee of ALT Linux, and not on behalf of any company but speaking for myself,

would you please learn some basic English to write properly,
or get someone with basic English skills to fix your braindamage,
or better yet, just sit quiet and pretend to be smart?

Since *you* are the bastard who actually ruined the Russian school project.

TIA


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