Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project" [LWN.net]

Oracle has sent out a brief press release describing its plans for OpenOffice.org - sort of. "Given the breadth of interest in free personal productivity applications and the rapid evolution of personal computing technologies, we believe the OpenOffice.org project would be best managed by an organization focused on serving that broad constituency on a non-commercial basis." It sounds like Oracle has given up on OOo as a product and is cutting it loose.

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Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:11 UTC (Fri) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (7 responses)

Assuming they really do hand off control to the community, this would seem to make LibreOffice unnecessary now.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:31 UTC (Fri) by csigler (subscriber, #1224) [Link] (2 responses)

FWIW, I think it may be just the other way around. There's a ton of activity surrounding LibreOffice development and the traffic and number of developers seem to grow week by week.

This is not to say that OOo is any less active; I don't know. But it seems to me that LO certainly won't be superseded by a change in direction (or licensing) of OOo at this point. I can imagine that a re-merger of the projects could be a remote possibility, if licensing and leadership issues were ironed out.

I guess "unnecessary" is in the eye of the beholder? Just my 2c.

Clemmitt

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 20:01 UTC (Fri) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (1 responses)

Yes, I agree that all the interesting development has moved to LibreOffice; I meant that this move could mean all that development could now occur on the project named "OpenOffice.org", which still has a much more widely recognized name. If Oracle really does hand control over to a community organization, that community organization will hopefully have a much saner position regarding collaboration with the people actually doing development.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 16, 2011 0:28 UTC (Sat) by leomilano (guest, #32220) [Link]

Right, so what they should have announced, and they haven't, is a donation of the OpenOffice name to the LibreOffice community.

It's all about timing. They could have worked with the community, as soon as they took over OO, but they decided not to. And that is just out of place, at this point in time.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:46 UTC (Fri) by cjb (guest, #40354) [Link]

Yes, because having the project controlled by a company that had nothing to do with the creation of the software and is not particularly interested in working on or supporting it sounds *far better* than having a community-controlled one..

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 20:12 UTC (Fri) by SEJeff (guest, #51588) [Link] (1 responses)

It seems like you've crossed a few wires somewhere. The "community" all went to LibreOffice. If Oracle drops the ball on OpenOffice, it will die, and LibreOffice will take it's place.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 22:37 UTC (Fri) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link]

At this point, the only useful thing about OpenOffice.org is the name. I simply meant that this move might allow the development community (which all moved over to LibreOffice) to operate under the OpenOffice.org banner again.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 16, 2011 1:13 UTC (Sat) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link]

Assuming they really do hand off control to the community

I'll believe it when I see it. The best bet is that any hand off will take a long time to happen formally and will embed enough people from Oracle in the governing structure that a real community takeover would take even longer. It might work if there weren't a competing project that's actually community based, but given the existence of LibreOffice, Open Office is likely to be functionally dead the moment Oracle takes it off life support.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:15 UTC (Fri) by AlexHudson (guest, #41828) [Link] (3 responses)

I thought Rob Weir's slightly cryptic tweet - "A good opportunity to build a community around a single, OSS office suite, putting past differences aside." - was vaguely interesting, although despite my prodding I'm not sure he had Lotus Symphony in mind.

Although this means the end of the commercial OOo / Oracle Office product, that's no big surprise, since most of the developers had already been moved onto the web products a good while ago.

There was never any kind of clear roadmap for OOo from Oracle beyond the short term of releasing what they had already done. It was clear from the start they weren't terribly interested in it as a product, and in a way, who can blame them - it's still a good way short of Office, and I don't think they have the necessary agility to take it where it needs to go.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 17, 2011 19:49 UTC (Sun) by landley (guest, #6789) [Link] (2 responses)

> I thought Rob Weir's slightly cryptic tweet - "A good opportunity to
> build a community around a single, OSS office suite, putting past
> differences aside." - was vaguely interesting, although despite my
> prodding I'm not sure he had Lotus Symphony in mind.

When I read that, I heard the Black Knight from Monty Python going "All right, we'll call it a draw."

Mozilla begat FireFox, XFree86 begat X.org, OpenOffice begat LibreOffice. Water is unlikely to flow back uphill, no matter what the people at the top do.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 9:15 UTC (Mon) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

Water is unlikely to flow back uphill, no matter what the people at the top do.

You mean, not even if they suck? (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 26, 2011 14:30 UTC (Tue) by gerv (guest, #3376) [Link]

How do Mozilla and Firefox fit into that category? Firefox was a different product built on top of the Gecko core, and I guess you could call it a fork in some sense, but it was done by people who were still working on the original, with the full blessing of those at the top. This is rather unlike X.org, LibreOffice, MariaDB etc.

Gerv

A classic case

Posted Apr 15, 2011 19:53 UTC (Fri) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

of "too little, too late".

They should just give the name to the LibreOffice folks. That's where all the 'non-commercial' developers are by now, anyway.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 20:55 UTC (Fri) by job (guest, #670) [Link]

Let's hope that Oracle, against all odds, involves Libreoffice folks in this as early as possible.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 15, 2011 21:09 UTC (Fri) by cyperpunks (subscriber, #39406) [Link]

Oracle is stopping all OpenOffice development, all OO developers at Oracle have to find new jobs. That's all. Move on.

{ They might want to sell the name/trademark/copyrights/ip/patents for some large amount of $$, other than that, nada.}

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 16, 2011 3:27 UTC (Sat) by rahvin (guest, #16953) [Link] (3 responses)

So they refuse to allow community involvement. Then when the community decides to fork the project and move on and attempts with all sincerity to keep Oracle involved Oracle tells them to go pound sand.

Four months later when the community edition has completely eclipsed the previous project and has begun moving 4-10 times faster Oracle decides it's time to "re-involve" the community in OO.org.

Mark my words, this is one of two things. It's either a Trojan horse offer to try to sabotage the LO effort or it's simply Oracle realizing they are beat and abandoning the project entirely. Neither of these options is of any value. I'd argue that the even the name is worthless at this point and not worth the communities time. OpenOffice.org is a terrible name, the community should stick with the LibreOffice name and continue to allow it to gain market share. Anything else Oracle has to offer is of almost no value.

We should treat this "offer" with the contempt it deserves. Oracle had no intent of cooperation with the community until the community project beat them. Oracle shouldn't be rewarded for this move by the community working with them.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 16, 2011 5:27 UTC (Sat) by frazier (guest, #3060) [Link]

The OOo name may not be a favorite, but it has presence and value, especially outside of developers. Many have heard of "Open Office" but not LibreOffice.

Unless I've missed something (possible), there's a third possibility that Oracle will be active on the board for the new "community-based project". Note that the press release states:

"We intend to begin working immediately with community members to further the continued success of Open Office. Oracle will continue to strongly support the adoption of open standards-based document formats, such as the Open Document Format (ODF)."

It will be interesting to see how much Oracle really is going to let go with OOo. They may be trying to keep an artificially strong presence in the new "community-based project"... ...or not. Hard to say. What is clear to date is that Oracle could have handled the OOo element of the Sun acquisition far better than they have.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 16, 2011 7:02 UTC (Sat) by MisterIO (guest, #36192) [Link]

I completely agree with this and I think it would be a huge error to go back to the old name. It has no value and it could still mean legal problems, so just say _no_thanks_!

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 17, 2011 23:36 UTC (Sun) by simosx (guest, #24338) [Link]

For those non-technical people that tried an older version of OpenOffice.org, many had a negative experience, with bad support for DOC files and what not.

If the general feeling to the public for OpenOffice is negative, it makes sense to keep LibreOffice.

Here is a video from Vietnam where they are switching public services from OpenOffice to LibreOffice,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFowLtr39Ug&html5=True

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 16, 2011 20:27 UTC (Sat) by jensend (guest, #1385) [Link] (18 responses)

Good grief. Lots of doom and gloom here about Oracle making a move in the right direction.

Document Foundation folks said long ago that they'd prefer to be able to use the OpenOffice name (I still think the name "LibreOffice" is a disastrous PR liability) and have the participation of the Sun/Oracle developers.

Remember, though it's true that most of the non-Oracle part of the community has gone to LibreOffice, there have been considerably more paid OO developers at Sun/Oracle than everywhere else combined, and scoffing at the contributions these folks (many of whom have been well-acquainted with the code base for a long time) could make is unwise. A lot of the numbers people spouted about high percentages of the OO developers moving to LibreOffice included translators etc and ignored the reality that the core developers are largely still employed by Oracle.

BTW, I don't imagine it'd be too costly to buy out the old Open Office trademarks, as neither the Netherlands folks nor the UK folks seem to be getting much use out of them. Perhaps the trademark owners would be willing to settle for less cash for handing the trademark over to a nonprofit organization rather than to Oracle.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 17, 2011 4:35 UTC (Sun) by dmarti (subscriber, #11625) [Link] (2 responses)

and maybe they can lose the awkward ".org" from the official name while they're at it.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 17, 2011 4:46 UTC (Sun) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (1 responses)

They can't. It was added for a reason. Openoffice is a independently trademarked product in Netherlands and UK by two different organizations.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 19, 2011 20:55 UTC (Tue) by rbrito (guest, #66188) [Link]

Indeed.

And here in Brazil, they couldn't keep the name OpenOffice and it had to be rebranded as BrOffice. I have not seen how the recent movements are, but I wish that the BrOffice name were dropped and LibreOffice were adopted, so that we have fewer reasons for confusion.

But I do realize that changing rules in the middle of the game is troubling.

If anybody has any authoritative word on the subject of changing BrOffice back to LibreOffice, that would be appreciated.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 17, 2011 12:14 UTC (Sun) by csigler (subscriber, #1224) [Link]

I think that there's a problem, however. I fear this announcement is a prelude to Oracle dumping OOo. This means no in-house development work from Oracle starting very soon -- they could even flush current support tools such as the OOo bugzilla -- and no cash to buy the pre-existing Openoffice trademarks, such as they are.

The alternative is that this is an attempt to wrest control of Open/LibreOffice code and development back from the forked community, but that seems kinda tin-foil-hatty to me. Not that it's impossible, mind you, but far fetched. Most likely it's a bottom line business decision. Development costs are higher than sales income, so toss it all out. Again, my 2c.

Clemmitt

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 4:33 UTC (Mon) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (4 responses)

Lots of doom and gloom here about Oracle making a move in the right direction.

I don't think it's "gloom and doom", which would imply that Oracle is doing something that will be damaging to OOo/LO. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that. The big questions are whether Oracle is being completely open and honest about its plans and whether its actions are relevant anymore.

On the issue of honest and openness, Oracle and Sun have not been the friendliest vendors to a genuine community process. As far as I can tell, they have been willing to accept community contributions but not to cede company control over the technical direction of their projects. That has meant there are real user communities but not a real community process. Until Oracle/Sun proves they're willing to let the community control the project, I'll remain skeptical.

On the question of relevance, it seems pretty clear that there's already been real code divergence between OOo and LO. The LO community has also continued to build. The longer the wait until Oracles new project launches, the more the LO community will develop and diverge from Oracle's. If LO succeeds in building a real, functioning community before then, the developers will be reluctant to leave it and the code they've been developing just for the OOo name. Oracle may have the best intentions and a great plan, but if they wait too long it will all be for naught.

There is one exception

Posted Apr 18, 2011 7:12 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (2 responses)

Actually there are exist well-knwon exception to the rule: btrfs. It's true community project (take a look on a list of commits... and not attribution even!), but it's more like they had a great guy who proposed to create great filesystem (Chris Mason was reiserfs developer in the past so it's not like he's new to filesystem work) and the choice was: will he develop it under Oracle's guidance or under someone's else?

This basically says that Oracle can do right thing - but only under pressure. So I'm cautiously optimistic.

There is one exception

Posted Apr 18, 2011 9:25 UTC (Mon) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

Well, btrfs is kernel code. They don't get to choose the license if they want it upstream.

There is one exception

Posted Apr 18, 2011 12:30 UTC (Mon) by lmb (subscriber, #39048) [Link]

It just proves that Oracle is big enough a company that certain enclaves get to do things differently; in this case, most of the group under Wim. (The converse is also true; any large F/L/OSS positive company will have areas where they screw up.)

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 9:19 UTC (Mon) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

In the best scenario (and, yes, Oracle inspires pessimism), the LO people won't have to "leave" their work: the current LO could become the next OOo, just as, in another era, egcs -- which forked from gcc -- later supplanted it and became GCC-2.95.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 14:33 UTC (Mon) by pyellman (guest, #4997) [Link] (7 responses)

"Disastrous PR liability"? Hmm. Opinion.

I prefer the new name. Period. Sounds cooler. I always found the the .org part of OpenOffice.org to be a verbal stumbling block (yes, I know about the legal reasons). The new name not only sounds cooler, it may offer the opportunity to cast off some of the baggage that comes with "OpenOffice.org". Yes, that's right: the "OpenOffice.org" moniker carries both recognition value, and recognition baggage.

Finally, it's purely subjective, and perceived at an immeasurable distance through the lens of a computer monitor, but I get the sense that new name has contributed to a liberating, invigorating effect on the developers and development process. Perhaps it gives an added sense of ownership, I don't know, but it feels right to me.

Long live LibreOffice.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 19:12 UTC (Mon) by bucky (guest, #53055) [Link] (6 responses)

"Sounds cooler" Hmm. Opinion.

Mixing languages in a single sentence can be perilous. My facility with Spanish is somewhat limited.

So when I hear "Libre," "Cuba Libre" is what springs to my mind as the first association. Likening a product to a communist dictatorship doesn't really work for me.

You know, opinion.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 19, 2011 1:39 UTC (Tue) by pyellman (guest, #4997) [Link]

"You know, opinion".

Yeah, that was my point. My opinion is clearly cast as an opinion, not as an authoritative declaration. Apparently, that went over your head.

Your association of the word "libre" with Cuban communism is interesting, err, curious. I am a fairly adequate Spanish speaker, nevertheless, I never made that association -- in fact, I figured the term was a a "Frenchism" first, Spanish second (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/libre). I'd say your word association in this case is rather personal.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 19, 2011 6:49 UTC (Tue) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link] (1 responses)

"Likening a product to a communist dictatorship doesn't really work for me."

Then why do you do it? As if that was the only meaning of that word

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 19, 2011 13:24 UTC (Tue) by VPeric (guest, #74293) [Link]

It reminds me of the drink first, for example.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 21, 2011 16:02 UTC (Thu) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646) [Link] (2 responses)

In what world do you live that you associate "Cuba Libre" with "a communist dictatorship"?

In the world where I live, the so-called free world (pun intented), this is a cocktail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_Libre

That this is the common usage of that term is substantiated by Google search results for "Cuba Libre".

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 21, 2011 17:14 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link] (1 responses)

AFAIU, the idea of the "Cuba Libre" drink is that rum stands for Cuba, while the Coke stands for comming from a free country; so it certainly is linked to a communist dictatorship. ;-)

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 21, 2011 17:20 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

...except that it refers to Cuba's independence after the Spanish-American war, and the cocktail is recognised as having existed under that name since the start of the 20th century.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 19:14 UTC (Mon) by kugel (subscriber, #70540) [Link]

>> (I still think the name "LibreOffice" is a disastrous PR liability)

I agree LibreOffice is not the best name, but LibO is quite nice. IMO they should just advocate that abbreviation.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 18, 2011 18:25 UTC (Mon) by dneary (guest, #55185) [Link]

Anyone thought about why Oracle have made this statement? It would be more their style just to lay the developers off and silently let the project starve, à la Jenkins/Hudson and others. So why are they making a point of saying they're dumping it? Are they trying to put pressure on other companies who still have an interest in OOo?

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 20, 2011 2:21 UTC (Wed) by Hausvib6 (guest, #70606) [Link] (2 responses)

The press release page is 404 now, perhaps Oracle has canceled their plan.

Oracle: OpenOffice.org to become a "community-based project"

Posted Apr 20, 2011 11:32 UTC (Wed) by KevanV (guest, #74443) [Link] (1 responses)

The Press Release is still online at Oracle. The 404 page you saw is from marketwire.com

Fixed

Posted Apr 20, 2011 12:47 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

Obnoxious. I've substituted in the working link, thanks.