Groklaw shutting down in May [LWN.net]

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:44 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
In reply to: Groklaw shutting down in May by stumbles
Parent article: Groklaw shutting down in May

I have a LinkedIn profile with more than 450 contacts, including a publicly googlable LinkedIn page, and there's a Wikipedia article about me with plenty of links to material that proves many of my professional activities over the last 25 years.

Once you have a similar wealth of information in place about "PJ", you can come back to me and ask for more.

to post comments

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:48 UTC (Sun) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] (15 responses)

I don't need to gather up such information about PJ. Your the one making a big deal about it. So be the man you proclaim to be and reveal that which is not public.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:51 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (14 responses)

I've already disclosed far more than I can be reasonably expected to. "PJ" hasn't disclosed anything, which is definitely less than what can be reasonably expected. This here is still a discussion below an article about Groklaw's announced shutdown (as opposed to an article about me), by the way.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 14:12 UTC (Sun) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] (13 responses)

And there goes your other leg to stand on.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:26 UTC (Sun) by cyd (guest, #4153) [Link] (12 responses)

Mueller is probably pissed that, after strenuously promoting himself and taking every opportunity to puff up his "credentials" in the field of law and software, an anonymous blogger has achieved much more fame and influence than he ever will.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:34 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (11 responses)

You're quite wrong about "fame". I received the Economist Group's EU Campaigner of the Year Award in 2005. In 2002 it went to Pope John Paul II, in 2006 to Colin Firth (2011 Oscar Best Actor), and in 2007 to then-Governor Schwarzenegger. I was named to Managing Intellectual Property magazine's list of the 50 most influential people in IP in two consecutive years. Those are awards of far more prestige than any award Groklaw ever won.

Apart from that, I defended, at the EU level, the biggest revenue source (broadcasting rights) of the world's #1 club in the world's #1 spectator sport, and as a side effect of this effort, high-ranking EU politicians up to the current European Commission Vice President in charge of competition enforcement joined a newly founded fan club.

You can also find my name in the credits of three Blizzard Entertainment titles.

Moreover, I have in recent months been quoted by the world's two leading financial papers (WSJ, FT) and three leading news agencies (Reuters, AP, Bloomberg). In addition, CNN.com, BBC News, Le Monde, El País... I don't know when Groklaw was quoted by media of that profile.

So what does "PJ" bring to the table? A blog full of rants that never had any actual effect on a decision -- it was just a propaganda device all the time.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:58 UTC (Sun) by jubal (subscriber, #67202) [Link]

so you're a lobbyist, and as a result of your line of job you received one obscure industry award, have been quoted once or twice by a journalist and got your name into the credit list of a two or three games.

All that while meticulously keeping track of how frequently is your name popping up here and there.

Oh my. No wonder that you sound so bitter.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:44 UTC (Sun) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (5 responses)

I received the Economist Group's EU Campaigner of the Year Award in 2005.

The one you initially declined and returned as it seems to have been sponsored and potentially influenced by Microsoft? :-) Yes, I remember that. From your mail ( http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/2005/11/).

Initially, I accepted the category award, not enthusiastically but because I did not want to cause any impression of an emotional overreaction by immediately declining it.[...] Before the photograph, I gave the award trophy back to Mr. Dennis Landsbert-Noon, the publisher of the European Voice, and left.[...]

In his acceptance speech, he [Rocard, a MEP] mentioned Microsofts sponsorship of the EV50 awards several times.[...]

Mr. Rocard could additionally have mentioned that Burson-Marsteller, a PR and lobbying firm with offices in many cities including Brussels, counts Microsoft (as well as other corporations with a similar position on software patents) among its clients. Burson-Marsteller was involved in the organization of the EV50.

I told Mr. Landsbert-Noon that I had, after serious consideration, 'decided not to accept the award', and that I will issue further statements after obtaining legal advice.

It has been called unhelpful zig-zag behavior. I know you accepted it a month later despite you saying that you think it's unlikely the voting was representative :

All in all, one would be hard-pressed to find a plausible explanation for the outcome of the EV50 vote. There are some theoretical answers, but they arent too likely. The organizers decided that total intransparency is in their best interest, so were left in the dark as to what exactly happened.

Unfortunately, your slashdot journal has been deleted (OMG, slashdot censorship??!?), so I could not link to the original source. Mmh, seems like a great achievement to me. SCNR, I'll stop now.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:47 UTC (Sun) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (3 responses)

mmh, the zig-zack link points to the wrong place, it's supposed to point here: http://www.ipjur.com/2005/11/anti-patent-campaigners-in-t...

Can we get the 5 minute embargo in which I can still edit my own article even after publishing please?

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:09 UTC (Sun) by zooko (guest, #2589) [Link] (2 responses)

You know what would be even more awesome? A five-minute embargo during which nobody other than you can yet see your contribution. :-)

Not saying there was anything wrong with yours in particular, but everyone including me would be well served by time to reflect and by a slower pace of conversation.

Regards,

Zooko

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:31 UTC (Sun) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link]

> Not saying there was anything wrong with yours in particular, but everyone including me would be well served by time to reflect and by a slower pace of conversation.

I agree. Such a 5-minute embargo would be quite useful indeed. For everything more hot-headed than this, there could be an IRC channel :-).

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:37 UTC (Sun) by jrn (subscriber, #64214) [Link]

Hear, hear! I wonder if it's possible to make a browser extension or greasemonkey script to simulate this in the meantime (so one could see the proposed comment in context and reflect).

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:49 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

After that disagreement over the process I had some follow-up correspondence with the European Voice. I won't disclose the details of that discussion, but the net effect is that I was always listed as the winner of the award (currently on this page), also in the European Voice weekly, and the European Voice quoted me in connection with Oracle/Sun, which I believe demonstrates that neither they nor I had any problem with a past disagreement.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:57 UTC (Sun) by cyd (guest, #4153) [Link] (3 responses)

Hi Mr. Mueller,

I am flattered and pleased that you have deigned to reply! Not even in my dreams have I conceived of conversing, even over the Internet, with someone worthy enough to have been credited in three separate (!) Blizzard Entertainment titles. However, I sense that you are being overly coy in stating your qualifications. No doubt there are numerous employee-of-the-month and high school yearbook awards that you have omitted to mention, due to a misplaced sense of modesty. Please, don't hold back on this account.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:01 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (2 responses)

@cyd, you are actually right that I didn't list all of them. CNET Networks UK handed me (jointly with an activist organization) the Outstanding Contribution to Software Development Award, Silicon.com put me on the list of the 50 Silicon Agenda Setters, Linux Magazine named me runner-up to its Outstanding Contribution to Linux & Open Source Award. But the reason I didn't mention those awards is because I wanted to focus on those with the most impressive fellow laureates -- more impressive than any fellow laureates Groklaw can point to.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 20:11 UTC (Sun) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link]

I think you failed the sarcasm test, buddy. :)

I know you're responding to someone claiming you're a nobody, but just as a friendly (really) bit of advice: waving your fame-dick around in public just makes you look like you're trying to compensate for something else, and doesn't impress anybody at all.

The correct response to the original accusation of anonymity would be to just say "google me" and leave it at that, if you felt a need for a response at all.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 12, 2011 4:05 UTC (Tue) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link]

Here's a hint: since you're complaining that the thread is about you, talking about yourself a little less would undoubtedly help.

And your attacks on PJ are disgusting; it doesn't matter in the least who she is. Not one iota. Deeds, not words, Florian, that's what's important. And she's had a profound and very positive impact on Linux directly, and Free Software more generally.

Even if she's actually a balding gay man in a rented bread truck outside Madison, WI, with absolutely terrible shoes, she still made a very real difference in the world. Any noise from you to the contrary is simply that, noise.

Those of us who measure by deeds see right through your ham-handed and transparent character assassination attempts.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 21:54 UTC (Sun) by frnknstn (guest, #68647) [Link] (6 responses)

Thank you for telling us about that Wikipedia page! I honestly had no idea who you are. (Of course, I know who PJ is.)

From your Wikipedia page, I saw a link to this story, attributed to you:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/03/googles-android-f...

Then I realised /exactly/ who you are. You are one of the guys who was claiming that Google infringed on Linux's copyrights, because their libc replacement used kernel headers.

I think that's the crux of your confusion: It doesn't matter if PJ is real, or fake. It doesn't matter if she's a woman, man, space alien, shill, or a fat dude in his underwear posting from his mom's basement. It doesn't matter if she was mean to your friends. And it doesn't matter that you have pals at a game company, excel at shameless self-promotion on a self-promotion website, or that you gave legal advice to Real Madrid.

Hell, it wouldn't even matter if you played in goal for Real Madrid.

What matters is that PJ and Groklaw, for the most part, GOT THINGS RIGHT. To a society that aspires to be a meritocracy, like the Linux community does, that is the most important thing. Maybe the harsh reactions to your friend's more measured words were extreme, or even sensationalist. Maybe she should have hedged her bets more. Maybe her style of writing misrepresented how skilled the "bad guy's" lawyers were, misrepresented how close or complicated the case was.

That was all due to what PJ actually is.

She isn't a big-shot lawyer, or some kind of Nobel peace prize winner like you. She wasn't a high-paid 'analyst', and I have no idea if she is some kind of lawyer-wannabe like you so cruelly said. (As an aside, that comment actually made me think you were some kind of fake, a troll using a fancy name to get legitimacy, hoping to prop up his arguments with some grand imagined past. The level of presumtion required to assume that every paralegal secretly wants to be you is almost unfathomable.)

You, sir, may be a better lawyer than PJ will ever be, but she is a better at what she is in that blog: a journalist, whose insights into both law and open source provided correct commentary for the rest of us. That is why Groklaw will be rightly missed.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 1:20 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link] (5 responses)

I'm about as big a fan of FM as most people here - he seems quite adamant to promote himself and doesn't like PJ or groklaw much. But he has a point - an anonymous harping on a variety of companies with all kinds of arguments which sometimes make sense, sometimes seem like the ones by the monkeys at boycottnovell.com - doesn't inspire confidence in me. Who is paying PJ? That's something I'd love to know. Apple? Intel? Sony? Microsoft, maybe?

I've never been very interested in legal stuff so I didn't read Groklaw religiously, but I've read most of what was linked from LWN - and mostly it was interesting to me. Usually I knew not enough of the background to comment on it in any intelligent way - so I took the truth for granted.

But I've now seen a few articles I DID have background on, and boy, were they uninformed, silly ranting. So frankly, I don't take Groklaw serious anymore - if the articles I did NOT know much about are as silly as the ones I DID know about, well, it's not worth much.

(it's similar to the science page of most newspapers - ever seen them comment on IT? If the rest of the articles are as stupid as those, well, I don't think they're worth reading anymore. I just hope they're not)

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 1:23 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (2 responses)

"Who is paying PJ? That's something I'd love to know."

Sure but if someone is raising such questions, they need to disclose who they are getting paid by as well especially if there is a potential conflict of interest. In that sense, it is ironic to see who is being very loud about it.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted May 30, 2011 14:48 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link] (1 responses)

I don't see any irony? Google my name and you know who's paying me. Ok, until 8 months ago I didn't make that very clear as the dutch government of education isn't exactly a relevant source of income for what I did in KDE...

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted May 30, 2011 15:40 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

I was talking about the OP and not you.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 10:34 UTC (Mon) by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624) [Link]

> Who is paying PJ?

Groklaw accepts donations via PayPal and also has a CafePress shop. In light of all this unnecessary hand-wringing over PJ perhaps the "I'm PJ" mousepad might make a nice gift for people.. ;-)

http://www.cafepress.com.au/cp/moredetails.aspx?productNo...

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 12:33 UTC (Mon) by frnknstn (guest, #68647) [Link]

Call me a romantic, but I find the idea of a lone-gun blogger who is a paralegal by day, and an injustice fighter by night. Apple, Intel, Sony, Microsoft and Google are all big companies, but I suspect the number of paralegals they employ is far less than those employed by all the legal firms in the US. Who is paying PJ? I really think the most likely answer is 'nobody'. (After all, most blogs are run by nobodies :)

The quality of reporting in specialist fields always seems to be poor to terrible. I am a big fan of badscience.net, and all the great work it's owner does to identify poor medical journalism practices.

I think that groklaw is a bit better than most sources; as you say, IT-related stories in newspapers are appaling, but groklaw's coverage is better than them, at least. I also prefer silly, uninformed ranting to coverage that serious, informed, but just plain wrong.

I also didn't follow groklaw's coverage, except when linked to from one of my regular news sites. Perhaps some of the silliness was already filtered out for me. If it isn't too much trouble, I would like to see a link of a groklaw story you take objection to.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 16:45 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

Groklaw is a far more impressive CV than your spamming.