Groklaw shutting down in May [LWN.net]

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:14 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
In reply to: Groklaw shutting down in May by stumbles
Parent article: Groklaw shutting down in May

How can PJ be a "reputable person" without ever having disclosed one past or current employer?

It's not about a "disdain for all things PJ". The problem is that Groklaw has constantly tried to capitalize on many people's desire for simple fairy-tale-like black-and-white views. Groklaw has, partly in its articles and partly in discussions, engaged in character assassination. The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more credulous and less informed people now distrust a very smart analyst like Rob Enderle, very smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons, or a very smart author like Ed Bott, only because they comment on certain issues with greater sanity than Groklaw.

I don't have a problem if Groklaw cancels its plans and continues beyond May 16. My blog started a year ago, and most of the issues I analyzed aren't even covered by Groklaw (other than occasional news picks at most). I just think that sites promoting black-and-white thinking and a shoot-the-messenger attitude do people a disservice.

to post comments

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:38 UTC (Sun) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] (25 responses)

OK, so disclose your past, present employers and those who are currently backing you. Or at least feeding you what to say or presenting issues they want you to blog about. If such a disclosure is so important to you then it should be no problem for you to disclose those who are helping you in a non-financial or financial manner.

You can deny your disdain but in your past comments towards her you would be lying with your couched character assassinations of her. So if your the "big guy" you want us to believe you would stop trying to make Groklaw out to be something it was not.

For you to site the "smart analysts" you have does you no service; unless you want everyone forget the bias of at least MOG and Enderle. As for the latter he has stated he is nothing more than a biatch of Microsoft and then pretends to be a fair and balanced journalist.

Or how about their famous NDA with SCO and then went on to proclaim to world+dog there was indeed infringement. I needn't remind you of that outcome.They for what ever reason allowed themselves to be duped and I think I am safe in saying they lost a whole lot of credibility at that point. Though it does not surprise me you hold them in esteem since your level has the appearance to be the same as theirs.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:44 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (24 responses)

I have a LinkedIn profile with more than 450 contacts, including a publicly googlable LinkedIn page, and there's a Wikipedia article about me with plenty of links to material that proves many of my professional activities over the last 25 years.

Once you have a similar wealth of information in place about "PJ", you can come back to me and ask for more.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:48 UTC (Sun) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] (15 responses)

I don't need to gather up such information about PJ. Your the one making a big deal about it. So be the man you proclaim to be and reveal that which is not public.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 13:51 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (14 responses)

I've already disclosed far more than I can be reasonably expected to. "PJ" hasn't disclosed anything, which is definitely less than what can be reasonably expected. This here is still a discussion below an article about Groklaw's announced shutdown (as opposed to an article about me), by the way.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 14:12 UTC (Sun) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] (13 responses)

And there goes your other leg to stand on.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:26 UTC (Sun) by cyd (guest, #4153) [Link] (12 responses)

Mueller is probably pissed that, after strenuously promoting himself and taking every opportunity to puff up his "credentials" in the field of law and software, an anonymous blogger has achieved much more fame and influence than he ever will.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:34 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (11 responses)

You're quite wrong about "fame". I received the Economist Group's EU Campaigner of the Year Award in 2005. In 2002 it went to Pope John Paul II, in 2006 to Colin Firth (2011 Oscar Best Actor), and in 2007 to then-Governor Schwarzenegger. I was named to Managing Intellectual Property magazine's list of the 50 most influential people in IP in two consecutive years. Those are awards of far more prestige than any award Groklaw ever won.

Apart from that, I defended, at the EU level, the biggest revenue source (broadcasting rights) of the world's #1 club in the world's #1 spectator sport, and as a side effect of this effort, high-ranking EU politicians up to the current European Commission Vice President in charge of competition enforcement joined a newly founded fan club.

You can also find my name in the credits of three Blizzard Entertainment titles.

Moreover, I have in recent months been quoted by the world's two leading financial papers (WSJ, FT) and three leading news agencies (Reuters, AP, Bloomberg). In addition, CNN.com, BBC News, Le Monde, El País... I don't know when Groklaw was quoted by media of that profile.

So what does "PJ" bring to the table? A blog full of rants that never had any actual effect on a decision -- it was just a propaganda device all the time.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:58 UTC (Sun) by jubal (subscriber, #67202) [Link]

so you're a lobbyist, and as a result of your line of job you received one obscure industry award, have been quoted once or twice by a journalist and got your name into the credit list of a two or three games.

All that while meticulously keeping track of how frequently is your name popping up here and there.

Oh my. No wonder that you sound so bitter.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:44 UTC (Sun) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (5 responses)

I received the Economist Group's EU Campaigner of the Year Award in 2005.

The one you initially declined and returned as it seems to have been sponsored and potentially influenced by Microsoft? :-) Yes, I remember that. From your mail ( http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/2005/11/).

Initially, I accepted the category award, not enthusiastically but because I did not want to cause any impression of an emotional overreaction by immediately declining it.[...] Before the photograph, I gave the award trophy back to Mr. Dennis Landsbert-Noon, the publisher of the European Voice, and left.[...]

In his acceptance speech, he [Rocard, a MEP] mentioned Microsofts sponsorship of the EV50 awards several times.[...]

Mr. Rocard could additionally have mentioned that Burson-Marsteller, a PR and lobbying firm with offices in many cities including Brussels, counts Microsoft (as well as other corporations with a similar position on software patents) among its clients. Burson-Marsteller was involved in the organization of the EV50.

I told Mr. Landsbert-Noon that I had, after serious consideration, 'decided not to accept the award', and that I will issue further statements after obtaining legal advice.

It has been called unhelpful zig-zag behavior. I know you accepted it a month later despite you saying that you think it's unlikely the voting was representative :

All in all, one would be hard-pressed to find a plausible explanation for the outcome of the EV50 vote. There are some theoretical answers, but they arent too likely. The organizers decided that total intransparency is in their best interest, so were left in the dark as to what exactly happened.

Unfortunately, your slashdot journal has been deleted (OMG, slashdot censorship??!?), so I could not link to the original source. Mmh, seems like a great achievement to me. SCNR, I'll stop now.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:47 UTC (Sun) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (3 responses)

mmh, the zig-zack link points to the wrong place, it's supposed to point here: http://www.ipjur.com/2005/11/anti-patent-campaigners-in-t...

Can we get the 5 minute embargo in which I can still edit my own article even after publishing please?

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:09 UTC (Sun) by zooko (guest, #2589) [Link] (2 responses)

You know what would be even more awesome? A five-minute embargo during which nobody other than you can yet see your contribution. :-)

Not saying there was anything wrong with yours in particular, but everyone including me would be well served by time to reflect and by a slower pace of conversation.

Regards,

Zooko

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:31 UTC (Sun) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link]

> Not saying there was anything wrong with yours in particular, but everyone including me would be well served by time to reflect and by a slower pace of conversation.

I agree. Such a 5-minute embargo would be quite useful indeed. For everything more hot-headed than this, there could be an IRC channel :-).

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:37 UTC (Sun) by jrn (subscriber, #64214) [Link]

Hear, hear! I wonder if it's possible to make a browser extension or greasemonkey script to simulate this in the meantime (so one could see the proposed comment in context and reflect).

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:49 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

After that disagreement over the process I had some follow-up correspondence with the European Voice. I won't disclose the details of that discussion, but the net effect is that I was always listed as the winner of the award (currently on this page), also in the European Voice weekly, and the European Voice quoted me in connection with Oracle/Sun, which I believe demonstrates that neither they nor I had any problem with a past disagreement.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 17:57 UTC (Sun) by cyd (guest, #4153) [Link] (3 responses)

Hi Mr. Mueller,

I am flattered and pleased that you have deigned to reply! Not even in my dreams have I conceived of conversing, even over the Internet, with someone worthy enough to have been credited in three separate (!) Blizzard Entertainment titles. However, I sense that you are being overly coy in stating your qualifications. No doubt there are numerous employee-of-the-month and high school yearbook awards that you have omitted to mention, due to a misplaced sense of modesty. Please, don't hold back on this account.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 18:01 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (2 responses)

@cyd, you are actually right that I didn't list all of them. CNET Networks UK handed me (jointly with an activist organization) the Outstanding Contribution to Software Development Award, Silicon.com put me on the list of the 50 Silicon Agenda Setters, Linux Magazine named me runner-up to its Outstanding Contribution to Linux & Open Source Award. But the reason I didn't mention those awards is because I wanted to focus on those with the most impressive fellow laureates -- more impressive than any fellow laureates Groklaw can point to.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 20:11 UTC (Sun) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link]

I think you failed the sarcasm test, buddy. :)

I know you're responding to someone claiming you're a nobody, but just as a friendly (really) bit of advice: waving your fame-dick around in public just makes you look like you're trying to compensate for something else, and doesn't impress anybody at all.

The correct response to the original accusation of anonymity would be to just say "google me" and leave it at that, if you felt a need for a response at all.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 12, 2011 4:05 UTC (Tue) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link]

Here's a hint: since you're complaining that the thread is about you, talking about yourself a little less would undoubtedly help.

And your attacks on PJ are disgusting; it doesn't matter in the least who she is. Not one iota. Deeds, not words, Florian, that's what's important. And she's had a profound and very positive impact on Linux directly, and Free Software more generally.

Even if she's actually a balding gay man in a rented bread truck outside Madison, WI, with absolutely terrible shoes, she still made a very real difference in the world. Any noise from you to the contrary is simply that, noise.

Those of us who measure by deeds see right through your ham-handed and transparent character assassination attempts.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 21:54 UTC (Sun) by frnknstn (guest, #68647) [Link] (6 responses)

Thank you for telling us about that Wikipedia page! I honestly had no idea who you are. (Of course, I know who PJ is.)

From your Wikipedia page, I saw a link to this story, attributed to you:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/03/googles-android-f...

Then I realised /exactly/ who you are. You are one of the guys who was claiming that Google infringed on Linux's copyrights, because their libc replacement used kernel headers.

I think that's the crux of your confusion: It doesn't matter if PJ is real, or fake. It doesn't matter if she's a woman, man, space alien, shill, or a fat dude in his underwear posting from his mom's basement. It doesn't matter if she was mean to your friends. And it doesn't matter that you have pals at a game company, excel at shameless self-promotion on a self-promotion website, or that you gave legal advice to Real Madrid.

Hell, it wouldn't even matter if you played in goal for Real Madrid.

What matters is that PJ and Groklaw, for the most part, GOT THINGS RIGHT. To a society that aspires to be a meritocracy, like the Linux community does, that is the most important thing. Maybe the harsh reactions to your friend's more measured words were extreme, or even sensationalist. Maybe she should have hedged her bets more. Maybe her style of writing misrepresented how skilled the "bad guy's" lawyers were, misrepresented how close or complicated the case was.

That was all due to what PJ actually is.

She isn't a big-shot lawyer, or some kind of Nobel peace prize winner like you. She wasn't a high-paid 'analyst', and I have no idea if she is some kind of lawyer-wannabe like you so cruelly said. (As an aside, that comment actually made me think you were some kind of fake, a troll using a fancy name to get legitimacy, hoping to prop up his arguments with some grand imagined past. The level of presumtion required to assume that every paralegal secretly wants to be you is almost unfathomable.)

You, sir, may be a better lawyer than PJ will ever be, but she is a better at what she is in that blog: a journalist, whose insights into both law and open source provided correct commentary for the rest of us. That is why Groklaw will be rightly missed.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 1:20 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link] (5 responses)

I'm about as big a fan of FM as most people here - he seems quite adamant to promote himself and doesn't like PJ or groklaw much. But he has a point - an anonymous harping on a variety of companies with all kinds of arguments which sometimes make sense, sometimes seem like the ones by the monkeys at boycottnovell.com - doesn't inspire confidence in me. Who is paying PJ? That's something I'd love to know. Apple? Intel? Sony? Microsoft, maybe?

I've never been very interested in legal stuff so I didn't read Groklaw religiously, but I've read most of what was linked from LWN - and mostly it was interesting to me. Usually I knew not enough of the background to comment on it in any intelligent way - so I took the truth for granted.

But I've now seen a few articles I DID have background on, and boy, were they uninformed, silly ranting. So frankly, I don't take Groklaw serious anymore - if the articles I did NOT know much about are as silly as the ones I DID know about, well, it's not worth much.

(it's similar to the science page of most newspapers - ever seen them comment on IT? If the rest of the articles are as stupid as those, well, I don't think they're worth reading anymore. I just hope they're not)

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 1:23 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (2 responses)

"Who is paying PJ? That's something I'd love to know."

Sure but if someone is raising such questions, they need to disclose who they are getting paid by as well especially if there is a potential conflict of interest. In that sense, it is ironic to see who is being very loud about it.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted May 30, 2011 14:48 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link] (1 responses)

I don't see any irony? Google my name and you know who's paying me. Ok, until 8 months ago I didn't make that very clear as the dutch government of education isn't exactly a relevant source of income for what I did in KDE...

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted May 30, 2011 15:40 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

I was talking about the OP and not you.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 10:34 UTC (Mon) by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624) [Link]

> Who is paying PJ?

Groklaw accepts donations via PayPal and also has a CafePress shop. In light of all this unnecessary hand-wringing over PJ perhaps the "I'm PJ" mousepad might make a nice gift for people.. ;-)

http://www.cafepress.com.au/cp/moredetails.aspx?productNo...

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 12:33 UTC (Mon) by frnknstn (guest, #68647) [Link]

Call me a romantic, but I find the idea of a lone-gun blogger who is a paralegal by day, and an injustice fighter by night. Apple, Intel, Sony, Microsoft and Google are all big companies, but I suspect the number of paralegals they employ is far less than those employed by all the legal firms in the US. Who is paying PJ? I really think the most likely answer is 'nobody'. (After all, most blogs are run by nobodies :)

The quality of reporting in specialist fields always seems to be poor to terrible. I am a big fan of badscience.net, and all the great work it's owner does to identify poor medical journalism practices.

I think that groklaw is a bit better than most sources; as you say, IT-related stories in newspapers are appaling, but groklaw's coverage is better than them, at least. I also prefer silly, uninformed ranting to coverage that serious, informed, but just plain wrong.

I also didn't follow groklaw's coverage, except when linked to from one of my regular news sites. Perhaps some of the silliness was already filtered out for me. If it isn't too much trouble, I would like to see a link of a groklaw story you take objection to.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 16:45 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

Groklaw is a far more impressive CV than your spamming.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:16 UTC (Sun) by leoc (guest, #39773) [Link] (1 responses)

The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more credulous and less informed people now distrust a very smart analyst like Rob Enderle, very smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons

Really? REALLY?

"I expect one of them -- or perhaps a group of them -- will go too far at some point and do significant damage to the open-source movement, the ongoing litigation with SCO or their employers. I strongly believe that if September 11th showed us anything, it was that zealots of any movement represent a huge risk to that movement because they do not consider the repercussions of their actions." - Rob Enderle invoking the violent deaths of thousands of innocent people to attack the linux community.

"Freetard" - The tag Dan Lyons' uses for articles about Richard Stallman and the FOSS movement.

"These guys [SCO] in Utah are no dummies. The crunchies in the Linux community should be paying more attention." - Dan Lyons also invoking militant rhetoric about the Linux community in Forbes.

You might want to consider different people to defend if you want to claim the moral high ground here.

Florian the FUDmeister: heir to Lyons, O'Gara and Enderle. Makes sense now.

Posted Apr 12, 2011 18:00 UTC (Tue) by zeke123 (guest, #60445) [Link]

You might be tempted to call Mueller a troll.
You might be tempted to call him FUD spreader.
And also someone who loves to spread innuendo.
'Say, have you stopped beating your wife?'
You know, that kind that straddles the line.

Many respected FLOSS activists and journalists HAVE met PJ.
SJVN even mentioned it in his article this week that he knows her.
So Mueller is calling SJVN and others LIARS.
Plain and simple.
When someone tells you they saw something and you still have doubts, you are calling them liars.
Which is great because that's what most people call Mueller but we have to do it sub rosa.
So be like him, dont call him a liar straight out, rather insinuate things about his character and motives the way he does. You can then defend yourself that it wasnt what you said, heck you could even act offended if someone brings it up. This also helps you keep the image of impartiality without stating your motives straight up.
Public speaking 101.

Listen to enough FUD and BS in your life (as a developer Ive developed a healthy aversion to our marketing dept BS) and you can spot it very easily.
Luckily, in FLOSS we had the chance to witness Lyons, O'Gara and Enderle in action in their hilarious prime.
Mueller is continuing their job. In more or less the same fashion.

Having him praise these 3 prince clowns of disinformation confirms it.

Its hard to find one FLOSS personality who hasnt figured Mueller out by now. Let's hope he goes back to video game marketing soon and rids our communities of his poisonous words and lies.

PS: Has anyone ever seen Mueller and Enderle in the same room together?
I got a fiver that its just old Rob in disguise.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 16:35 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Reputation stands on what you do, not on who your employers are.

PJ's reputation stands or falls on Groklaw. Nothing more, nothing less. Not on who she is, what gender or nationality nor who her parents were nor who employed her.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 10, 2011 21:23 UTC (Sun) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link]

I don't know (or care) about your past, present, or future employers very much. I do care about your views, and how consistent they are with other information I gather. That is what makes somebody a reputable source (or not) in my eyes.

And I'm sorry, Enderle and O'Gara have shown to my complete satisfaction that they have no clue on the technical side under discussion, and get hoodwinked by the most transparent smoke-and-mirrors setups even while they are suposedly specifically looking critically at the evidence offered. They might be business-savy all they can, if they have no clue on whatever said business stands and can't (or won't) vet their evidence, their comments are at most of amusement value.

See? Acording to the criteria above, your credibility just moved down a few notches here.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 4:12 UTC (Mon) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link]

I think it's time that you be banned from debate at LWN. The topic you raise is old.

I spent some time over at Groklaw defending you. I now regret this.

Groklaw was right in many things, and a forum for rather open debate. At the very least, it was their right to publish at their site what they believed. You might at least acknowledge the enormous effort and value that the site represented.

Instead, I read yet another smear attack. And this is an open one. Use your own blog for that, not LWN.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 13:22 UTC (Mon) by sitaram (guest, #5959) [Link]

I have to tell you I find a lot of Enderle's analyses suspect even *without* reading Groklaw.

I stopped reading more than the summary from groklaw a long time ago simply due to the "tl;dr" syndrome, so I am pretty sure I was not influenced by PJ.

IMO Enderle is biased. Quite unethically so.

I will, however, freely admit that all this is more than 2-3 years old, so if you ask me to show examples I will probably have to dig a lot.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 15:56 UTC (Mon) by RogerOdle (subscriber, #60791) [Link] (3 responses)

Because a reputation is based on what one does and not on who one is, that's why. PJ has evidence behind her. She doesn't hold herself out as an expert on programming. Her training is in legal research. The product of that kind of work is knowledge backed up by evidence. This she produces in abundance with friends on Groklaw.

What is your expertise? Programming? How does that qualify you to spout opinions on the GPL, a legal document? You have a bad reputation because you too often speak before you think. Groklaw has embarrassed you in the past because they did the research that you should have done. In other words, they did your job.

Groklaw speaks for itself. It has had a positive effect in the open source world and the legal world. It has earned respect because of its integrity.

You do everyone disrespect by suggesting that PJ has some unnatural influence on them.

As for not coming out in public. Society does not respect the privacy of "public" individuals. They can not go out in public and do the ordinary things that we lesser folk get to enjoy. They have to endure mob scenes, strangers being overly familiar in public places, and even death threats. None of these things help get the work done and the work is the only thing of real importance here. I would like to know the real reason that you need to know who PJ is? The fact is that you do not need to know who PJ is.

So leave PJ alone and go back to your fudding.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 16:02 UTC (Mon) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (2 responses)

What is your expertise? Programming?

What matters in my case is the breadth and depth of my expertise spanning the technical, economic, political and legal aspects of issues.

Groklaw has embarrassed you in the past because they did the research that you should have done. In other words, they did your job.

A bold, baseless and grossly inaccurate claim. You don't provide an example because there isn't even one.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 16:54 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

Groklaw itself is one shining example. Your comments *anywhere* are another. Together they are irrefutable evidence of PJ's integrity and your lack of same.

I suspect you know this, too, otherwise you wouldn't put so much effort into praising yourself and embarrassing yourself.

Groklaw shutting down in May - those who know

Posted Apr 11, 2011 19:00 UTC (Mon) by RogerOdle (subscriber, #60791) [Link]

There is a blues song that goes "Dem dat know, know that they know... and dem dat don' know will they just don't know that they just don't know". You sir do not know. Opinions are cheap, everyone has one. Knowledge is expensive it takes time and effort.

People that know support their positions by citing knowledge.

People that do not know cite credentials.

This is a classic tactic in retoric. If facts won't support your position then cite expertise. It is the reason there is so much bad science is out there. "I must be right because I wear a white lab coat."

I don't mean to embarrass you but your credentials are showing. I just thought you should know.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 16:22 UTC (Mon) by cmorgan (guest, #71980) [Link]

>The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more >credulous and less informed people now distrust a very smart analyst like >Rob Enderle, very smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons, or a >very smart author like Ed Bott, only because they comment on certain issues >with greater sanity than Groklaw.

We *should* distrust people like Dan Lyons. (Maureen O'Gara also tends to write pro-MS stories). The guy wrote an entire article with information given to him by SCO without verifying that any of that information was true. He did the right thing by apologizing about it but the damage was done. If he had done his job it might have tempered some of the crazy FUD that was thrown around in the early days instead of fueling the concern that all of F/OSS and Linux was going to get hammered by SCO.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 17:35 UTC (Mon) by ralphdegennaro (guest, #35718) [Link]

Reputable is not defined by who you know. Its defined by what you say, whether its understandable, trust-able and respectful. I think PJ, whomever she has, has proven that throughout the work she's done. Its sad when one can't argue against what a person says, they attack the information as if someone should not even read, process, understand and (potentially) internalize that information or pattern of thought.

Groklaw shutting down in May

Posted Apr 11, 2011 19:53 UTC (Mon) by Corkscrew (guest, #65853) [Link]

"How can PJ be a "reputable person" without ever having disclosed one past or current employer?"

Easily. She told us stuff, we went away and fact-checked (well, I did anyway), we found out that she was correct, rinse and repeat.

Since when is reputation intrinsically linked to having an employer? I know several unemployed people (ex-students in search of a job, mostly) who I would absolutely trust as sources of information. And, on the other hand, there are a lot of gainfully-employed fully-qualified lawyers who I wouldn't trust if they told me the sky was blue.

"The problem is that Groklaw has constantly tried to capitalize on many people's desire for simple fairy-tale-like black-and-white views."

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I got an order of magnitude more sophisticated in my understanding of law when I started reading Groklaw.

"The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more credulous and less informed people now distrust a very smart analyst like Rob Enderle, very smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons, or a very smart author like Ed Bott, only because they comment on certain issues with greater sanity than Groklaw."

I haven't followed Groklaw regularly in a while, and my memory is a bit hazy. Could you link to examples of "character assassination", so we can check for ourselves whether or not it was justified?

The only one of the authors you mention who rings an instant bell is Maureen O'Gara - wasn't she the one who tried to "out" PJ by posting what was allegedly her ageing mother's home address?

I remember that PJ never had any qualms about sneering at people she thought were talking garbage (especially if they had a financial interest in the situation). But to me at the time her comments mostly seemed appropriate - I recall that, whenever I checked what people had actually written, I felt PJ's criticisms were deserved. As I say, though, that was a long time ago for me.