The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience [LWN.net]

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 15, 2011 17:16 UTC (Tue) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054)
Parent article: The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

The "dash", with its mix of favorite launchers and running apps, sounds very much like the OS X Dock.

That "maximize a window moved to the top of the screen" is a scourge on humanity. I don't know where the idea came from (I assume Vista), but I hated it when it appeared in KDE, and I'm disappointed that GNOME is adopting it too.

In general, this description makes me extremely glad to have (mostly) stuck with KDE instead of jumping to GNOME.

to post comments

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 15, 2011 18:31 UTC (Tue) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link] (1 responses)

> In general, this description makes me extremely glad to have (mostly) stuck with KDE instead of jumping to GNOME.

I haven't used KDE on a regular basis for a very long time, but I didn't enjoy the transition from GNOME 1 to 2, so I think I may switch to KDE until things settle down. Our editor isn't the only one who tends towards grumpiness.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 15, 2011 23:40 UTC (Tue) by jiu (guest, #57673) [Link]

This seems like a very good choice indeed. I'll probably do that too, I've never really given KDE its chance, now is the time.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 15, 2011 18:58 UTC (Tue) by yokem_55 (subscriber, #10498) [Link]

I agree, I don't know how many times I accidentally maximize a window on my machine at work, drives me nuts. Thankfully, the KDE devs included an easy to use and find configuration option that disables this behavior.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 15, 2011 22:50 UTC (Tue) by aigarius (subscriber, #7329) [Link] (17 responses)

I do hate the increase of number of actions for operations that I do ever few minutes. While it might not seem much, but the increase from one click on an always visible static icon to 2-3 click on an icon with a dynamic location that only shows up after the first click/action and its animation is complete, that is a HUGE increase in time and attention needed just to launch an application or switch to an application. It reduces productivity for the most common operation that people do with the system. And that is unacceptable. New versions must have a better workflow for common operations, not worse.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 15, 2011 23:42 UTC (Tue) by jiu (guest, #57673) [Link]

agree, and to me the best example of change requiring more user movements for the same effect is the MS ribbon introduced in office 2007. God do I hate that thing, 4 years after the fact!

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 1:15 UTC (Wed) by ewen (subscriber, #4772) [Link] (5 responses)

You may want to consider setting up a keybinding (ctrl-alt-SOMETHING is what I normally use) that launches your common applications (ie, one binding per application). I've done this for years (probably 15+) over a bunch of different environments (OS/2, fvwm, Gnome, OS X, etc), and it's usually one of the first things I do when setting up a new desktop.

I only fight through the menus (or other launchers) for things I only need to run infrequently (either because I hardly ever use them, or because they stay always running started soon after first boot -- and then the system is suspended/resumed through until it needs a kernel update, usually many weeks if not months).

Ewen

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 1:26 UTC (Wed) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link]

A good point, but sometimes one actually likes to use icons. I tried using xmonad (which is what some others who have left GNOME have landed on) but that's a little too extreme. If I'm going to use a "graphical desktop", having and using icons in launchers is the order of the day.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 15:11 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link] (2 responses)

There's no need to do that. Just hit the Logo key, type the first few letters of an application name and press enter. I do this in about 800ms, frequently, for both Terminal and Calculator. If the app is already running, it's brought to the foreground; if it isn't, it's launched.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 16:42 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

I tried GNOME Shell back in November (was a KDE user, have since migrated to using XMonad). Is there any way to unbind the Logo key so it can be used in global shortcuts without doing anything when a shortcut isn't completed?

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 17:01 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link]

gconf-editor > apps > mutter > general > overlay_key

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 18, 2011 16:09 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

You may want to consider setting up a keybinding (ctrl-alt-SOMETHING is what I normally use) that launches your common applications (ie, one binding per application).

I use the "Win" key for this, having once found the KDE 3.x configuration screen which lets you set this up. Why the "Win" key? Well, I have to use that key for something.

And like you, I rarely need to go into the menus any more, although I also place my favourite applications in the icon/launcher bar just in case I'm using the mouse. It occurs to me that a "bookmarks" paradigm for applications would populate both methods upon indicating that an application is "bookmarked" or needs a shortcut, or whatever.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 15:08 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link] (9 responses)

I've found that there's been a net reduction in time to reach an application in Shell. For example, I frequently cannot remember if I already have a terminal window open among the 10 windows that I commonly have open. Instead of hunting for it in the taskbar (old way) or going to the overview and clicking on it (as you indicated), I hit the Logo key and type "term" and press enter. It takes me about 800ms to complete this action. If it's not already running, it's started. If it is already running, it is brought to the foreground and I can either use the existing or open a new tab (Ctrl-Shift-T.)

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 15:47 UTC (Wed) by aigarius (subscriber, #7329) [Link] (8 responses)

That does sound good, but: 1) I usually have 4-5 different terminals open and would like to switch to a particular one, they are often named by title so I can find it in a rather easy way, 2) for me personally typing is far more disruptive to my mind flow than clicking.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 15:51 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link] (7 responses)

Then you may find that there is a penalty. In my case, I use a laptop with a nib in the center of the keyboard so combining keyboard and mouse operations is quick. I frequently, hit Logo, and nib over to the dash, for example. In the multiple window case, I right click and look at the list of window names in the popup menu and choose the one I want.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 17:18 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (6 responses)

While for me I generally have at least three different classes of terminals open at once (in separate tabbed terminal emulators). Each are in different places in the (2D) pager: it is at most two keystrokes to get to any of them, and on my keyboard at least all the keys to do this are under my fingers or thumbs anyway (though this is not true on normal QWERTY keyboards). Each workspace with a terminal emulator in it also has a chorded function key associated with it, which means they're all one chord away, and any arbitrary terminal in each of them is no more than two more chords away.

(My keyboard has a trackball in the centre, but, y'know what? doing large-scale movements with a trackball or a nib is *terribly* slow compared to hitting a couple of keys.)

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 17:23 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link] (5 responses)

If your trying really hard to hunt for an obscure reason that GNOME 3 isn't going to work for you without having even *tried* it, then I'm afraid there isn't anything that I could say that would change your mind.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 17:51 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (4 responses)

No, I'm not. I'm trying to point out valid existing working patterns that *do not fit* your ostensibly 'fit for everyone' working pattern. (I didn't try it because I have actual work to do and cannot spend every day or every weekend trying out the latest desktop of the week. The criticisms of people for not trying desktops with fixes committed only three weeks ago and not even in rawhide yet are hilarious from my perspective. Do you think these people have nothing else to do?)

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 17:54 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link] (3 responses)

My point is that you have nothing to add to this conversation being that you are not informed.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 17, 2011 23:01 UTC (Thu) by rwmj (subscriber, #5474) [Link]

Specifically it's not going to work for Nix for the same reason it doesn't work for me .. lack of focus-follows-mouse.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 18, 2011 10:45 UTC (Fri) by nyfle (guest, #72967) [Link]

For what it's probably not worth, unlike nix, I am a Gnome user with a workflow that is almost 1:1 with his, and I have tried doing day-to-day things with it for roughly half a day. And what can I say, it looks nice (shiny things are always a plus), but my productivity was severely reduced because of the necessary keyboard-mouse-keyboard dance. I'm sure non-power users will love it - but what about the rest of us?

I do wonder why opinions/insights from non-Gnome users are being, in my opinion, so arrogantly shot down. UIX feedback is always good, no? And this is a general observation by the way, not necessarily aimed at you personally. I've seen quite a bit of "Don't like it? Sod off, then." attitude over the past few weeks...

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 24, 2011 13:37 UTC (Thu) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]

>My point is that you have nothing to add to this conversation being that you are not informed.

And you and I have nothing better to add than randomly trolling people, but that hasn't shut us up.

The Grumpy Editor's GNOME 3 experience

Posted Mar 16, 2011 15:03 UTC (Wed) by me@jasonclinton.com (subscriber, #52701) [Link]

You can already disable the drag-to-maximize and drag-to-side-snap feature. gconf-editor > desktop > gnome > shell > windows.