Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha [LWN.net]

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 20:07 UTC (Tue) by wondoman (guest, #72602)
Parent article: Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

So I've downloaded the Live-CD and dd'ed on an USB-Stick
just to give Gnome 3 a try.
If this is supposed to be the future of the Linux Desktop
then there is no future.
Were can I change the font hinting? Where can I change
the Desktop fonts? Why was the "Appearance" option removed
from Control Center? The default fonts are unreadable.

Systemd takes ages to boot and redirects meaningless application
messages to /dev/kmsg. Why?

to post comments

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 20:56 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link] (5 responses)

Regarding systemd taking ages to boot in the Alpha... it doesn't really take ages. In its current form it boots about as fast as previous init systems... although I haven't actually timed it. You need to understand that this is an Alpha release and the release has has a lot more troubleshooting stuff turned on. You can expect the kernel to be noticeably slower (primarily in boot speed) in the pre-releases. So systemd (and the kernel) should be a lot faster when the final release is done.

Since GNOME 3 is primarily a new development/codebase, things haven't been "removed", they just haven't been added. :)

I like GNOME Shell well enough but I prefer KDE myself. I know there is going to be a considerable amount of backlash when GNOME 3 starts shipping in new distro releases (not just Fedora)... and yes, there will be a backlash against Ubuntu's alternative Unity as well. This will be similar to what happened with the switch to KDE 4. Some people will be unhappy with the changes and demand every feature they used in previous releases be present before they are happy... and that just isn't going to happen.

On the font problem, I haven't experienced that on any of the systems I've used and am guessing it is hardware related. I'd say search for an existing bug and pile on, or file a new bug.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 21:48 UTC (Tue) by GhePeU (subscriber, #56133) [Link] (4 responses)

<i>Since GNOME 3 is primarily a new development/codebase, things haven't been "removed", they just haven't been added. :)</i>

No, they've been removed and there's no intention to add them back.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 21:56 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link] (2 responses)

Oh, so you are saying that they implemented all of the GNOME 2.x features in GNOME 3, and them removed most of them? No wonder GNOME 3 took so long. :)

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 23:36 UTC (Tue) by nteon (subscriber, #53899) [Link] (1 responses)

gtk3 is not a new codebase. Its gtk2 with some backwards-incompatible changes and the internals of structs sealed up, if my understanding is correct. 'gnome 3' is most of the gnome apps updated to use gtk3 & other newly blesses technologies (dconf instead of gconf comes to mind). In addition the default shell has changed to the new gnome shell from the panel, which is what most people take issue with, as it has many knobs found in the current version of gnome removed (maybe these are removed from gnome-*-properties apps? I'm not sure).

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 23:43 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]

Just to clarify, I was referring to GNOME Shell being completely new code... and not a rewrite of existing GNOME 2 stuff... or at least that is how I understand it. The control panel in GNOME 3 seems all new too.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 9, 2011 3:42 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

Right. GNOME Shell and System Settings are completely new codebases and the font configuration is added upstream but not in Fedora 15 yet since the codebase was frozen about two weeks ago. Updates will bring in more functionality. Some of the settings are not coming back however.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 22:57 UTC (Tue) by ibukanov (subscriber, #3942) [Link] (8 responses)

> Were can I change the font hinting? Where can I change
the Desktop fonts?

I second that. It is rather strange that Gnome-3 does not provide this basic feature yet. Nowadays with a wide range of screen sizes and resolutions there is no way that one default setting can work. For example, Gnome-3 fonts on my 11.9" laptop with 1366x768 resolution almost instantly caused too much eye strain especially with those tiny icon titles.

And where can I disable all window animation?

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 8, 2011 23:40 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link] (6 responses)

I don't think they want to let you turn off the animations. After all, if you could do that then GNOME Shell would work without requiring accelerated 3D. You would think that would be an option... after all "desktop virtualization" is on the list of "next big things in IT"... and hardware accelerated 3D doesn't work (at all or very well) in most virtualization products including KVM... so no GNOME Shell in your virtual desktop... nor in your remote terminal services type access types (VNC, FreeNX, NX, etc).

If you aren't hardware accelerated 3D capable, then it reverts to a quasi-GNOME 2.x interface. On the Fedora 15 Alpha release you can simulate a non-3D accelerated environment by picking "Boot (Basic Video)" at the boot screen (as witnessed in this review http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2011/03/preview-fedora-15-gn...). Don't expect the visual touches to be there in this mode though... as the window decorations and theme are very basic.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 9, 2011 0:33 UTC (Wed) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263) [Link] (4 responses)

>I don't think they want to let you turn off the animations.

Sounds like another instance of this gnomy paternalism, seen before when Linus had his temporary move to KDE episode.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 9, 2011 18:28 UTC (Wed) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link] (3 responses)

Sounds like another instance of this gnomy paternalism

That only applies if GNOME forces you to use GNOME against your will. If that is the case, please contact the GNOME Foundation board and that is a pretty big no no.

Saw also this quote when I tried to add a comment:

Please try to be polite, respectful, and informative, and to provide a useful subject line.

The comments regarding GNOME on Lwn aren't really polite IMO.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 10, 2011 8:38 UTC (Thu) by djao (guest, #4263) [Link] (2 responses)

Nobody forces me to use GNOME, which is a good thing, as I have no intention of using GNOME3, even though all my desktops are presently GNOME2. As I understand it, the original poster was saying the same thing.

There is nothing impolite or disrespectful about pointing out that GNOME3 is unsuitable for my needs. Nor is there anything impolite or disrespectful about suggesting to the GNOME developers that they should pay attention to what users actually want. After all, if they lose all their users, the community loses too.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 10, 2011 15:14 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link] (1 responses)

Maybe you want to lookup the definition of Paternalism (I had to do that):

Paternalism is the interference of a state or an individual with another person, against their will, and defended or motivated by a claim that the person interfered with will be better off or protected from harm.

You said gnomy paternalism. If I then read above definition, I fail to understand that at first you mention paternalism, which also includes forcing people against their will. Then in a followup, you mention you're not forced?

I presume maybe your understand or Paternalism or the one I found via Google (2nd link) is not in sync with what it really means.

To be 100% clear: No issues with suggestions that GNOME should listen to users (think we try, but that is a different discussion :) ).

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 10, 2011 15:18 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (guest, #27950) [Link]

Oh, whoops. Two different persons (thought the one I initially responded to and the followup is someone different). :)

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 9, 2011 7:58 UTC (Wed) by fsphil (guest, #44932) [Link]

Ah, well that explains my comment below about it appearing ugly - my system doesn't do any kind of video acceleration.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 9, 2011 23:56 UTC (Wed) by bkoz (guest, #4027) [Link]

Where can I add, remove, or change panels? Where can I add launchers to the existing panels?

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 10, 2011 5:34 UTC (Thu) by jmorris42 (guest, #2203) [Link] (1 responses)

> If this is supposed to be the future of the Linux Desktop
> then there is no future.

Amen. I can promise one thing. Mutter isn't coming anywhere my public lab machines, even as an option. I ain't answering the support questions.

And it isn't going on any machine I use. I just booted the F15 Alpha Live Disk and all I can say is NO. To switch virtual desktops I'm expected to mouse to the upper left corner then down to bottom middle? (Or use the keyboard shortcut, which I'd use instead.) And that insanity of the whole second screen with application icons is a non-starter. I hope the inability to get focus follow mouse is lack of space on the live disc but I have a terrible feeling that it is another victim of the GNOMEs getting the Steve Jobs disease of "However I happen to prefer a setting is the ONE way and you pitiful fools will do it my way until you realize I was right all along."

Looks Like I'll get one more version where I can probably force Compiz or metacity to work while I transition to XFCE.

Announcing the release of Fedora 15 Alpha

Posted Mar 10, 2011 18:51 UTC (Thu) by cry_regarder (subscriber, #50545) [Link]

If sloppy focus is gone, then I will skip F15 and then switch to some other desktop for F16.