What's the point anyway?

Posted Dec 2, 2010 11:06 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313)
In reply to: What's the point anyway? by corbet
Parent article: The dark side of open source conferences

they'll let you in the door even if you don't drink.

It's not a question of letting someone in or not. Being sober around people who are not that sober is definitely not fun. Maybe the word "awful" is not too strong to describe this situation. In my experience nearly any kind of social activity involves drinking, so I tend to avoid them. I think (hope?) that during the actual conference it is not a problem, but I guess that the real binding happens after the last presentations, so...

I've read the blog about the assault - it's absolutely appealing and in my opinion the guy deserved a knee to his groin and some time behind bars. I've also noted that the blog writer wore skirts too short (she had to wore bicycle shorts under that) and sit in a couple of laps. Please do not wear such short skirts and do not sit in laps. It is uncomfortable for guys. Probably not as uncomfortable as the lewd remarks, but still uncomfortable. I'm not advocating a chador, just skirts below knee and no cleavage. I mean professional environments do have dress codes, so it's shouldn't be different for conferences.

to post comments

clothing & victim blaming

Posted Dec 2, 2010 12:32 UTC (Thu) by maco (guest, #53641) [Link] (4 responses)

The knee? Er... Let me tell you, unless you're only looking at ankle-length skirts, it's darned *hard* to find skirts that reach all the way to the knee. Which means I mostly only wear ankle-length skirts, but I digress. Mid-thigh is considered appropriate in school dress codes, and it's very likely the most common length manufactured. Even when I look at dresses labeled "longer lengths," their measurements tell me they'd end at least 6 inches above my knee, and I'm not a basketball player. So, unless you're saying we should all be wearing either ankle-length or sewing our own clothes...

Regarding cleavage, please take a look in the women's department at any store. Find a button-up shirt that actually buttons all the way up. 90% will button only to mid-bosom, perhaps with another button 8 inches up at the collar for the "one button undone" rule. Buttoning this button while not having any buttons in the interim would result in a big old keyhole on the chest, if the button will even reach the hole. These shirts are usually cut so that there isn't enough fabric there for the two sides to reach. They are angled out into a V shape. I looked in Target a few months ago. I found *one* style of shirt made to button all the way. It only came in colors like bright blue plaid and hot pink plaid.

The modes of dressing you are saying are required for men to control themselves are ones that involve having to make ones own clothing or only wearing vintage clothing from the 1950s. They simply are not widely available anymore.

Additionally, she pointed out what she was wearing and how she was behaving to emphasize that a hundred men managed to understand that wearing a short skirt and sitting on someone's lap is NOT consent to being kissed or fondled! Only the word "yes" is consent.

Oh, and by the way, I *do* wear long skirts. I *do* frequently wear high necklines (especially if I'm going to be somewhere as gender-imbalanced as a tech con). Generally, I'm about as covered as an Orthodox Jewish woman, even up to including frequently covering my hair . And you know what? I've still been assaulted and followed at technical conferences.

STOP blaming the victim! Changing how you dress DOES NOT change your likelihood of being assaulted.

clothing & victim blaming

Posted Dec 2, 2010 12:57 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link] (3 responses)

Please read again what I wrote. I didn't write to dress up properly to avoid getting assaulted. I wrote to dress up in respect to fellow male open source enthusiasts who find it uncomfortable to be around females in short skirts and deep cleavages. It is not about not being able to control ourselves. It's about being uncomfortable. I don't know which part of the world you live, but at least in my part the stores have other kind of clothes too. I have four female colleagues and haven't seen neither their knees or breasts even though sometimes they come to my desk and bend towards my monitor.

clothing & victim blaming

Posted Dec 2, 2010 14:32 UTC (Thu) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link] (1 responses)

I (a male) often wear shorts to conferences, especially ones like LCA and GUADEC held in the summer of hot countries. Is this OK, or does that make you uncomfortable too?

clothing & victim blaming

Posted Dec 2, 2010 20:33 UTC (Thu) by airlied (subscriber, #9104) [Link]

There was a certain shorts wearer that did make a lot of people uncomfortable at a lot of conferences.

clothing & victim blaming

Posted Dec 3, 2010 3:52 UTC (Fri) by fuhchee (guest, #40059) [Link]

Perhaps another way to say this is that people should avoid dressing & behaving in ways, that if pictured during conference presentations as clip-art, someone would be made uncomfortable by it.