The kernel and the C library as a single project [LWN.net]

The kernel and the C library as a single project

Posted Nov 30, 2010 23:52 UTC (Tue) by hmh (subscriber, #3838)
Parent article: The kernel and the C library as a single project

I think it would be more productive to have a "Linux glibc liason".

A proactive person which would:

1. Maintain a fast-merge branch of glibc for new Linux functionality
(probably by topic);

2. Pester the hell out of any kernel developer that does not ALSO
work in that fast-merge branch code to integrate the new functionality
in glibc. Anyone proposing a syscall would have to ALSO provide
userspace code to use it (which also ensures the thing is properly
tested and usable);

3. Work with glibc to merge the fast-merge topic branches as soon as
practical (i.e. after it is working well, and stable enough to become
ABI in practice), but respecting the glibc release schedule.

That liason needs to be someone with "very good taste" for ABI and
syscall design, plus whatever key skills are needed in the glibc side.

And people could use the fast-merge branches to widely test the new
functionality, and even do early deployments where required.

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The kernel and the C library as a single project

Posted Dec 1, 2010 10:44 UTC (Wed) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link] (2 responses)

This sounds just about right for me.

The only problem being that, as any interface, this person has to have a pretty thick skin and be resistant to constant flak from both sides. You must add that it has to be someone that both sides can trust and work comfortably. Where to find such a hero?

The kernel and the C library as a single project

Posted Dec 1, 2010 14:48 UTC (Wed) by hmh (subscriber, #3838) [Link]

Hmm? The onus is, and has always been, with whomever is proposing the new interfaces.

The liaison might get some flak from whomever is proposing the new interfaces and being told to go back to the drawing board. But the liaison will be in a position of power in that case (as long as he is someone that is respected by Linus for his good taste in ABIs/syscalls).

The way these things have worked in LKML lately is that you either do _something_ productive when people decide to oppose your new syscall/ABI, even if it happens at the very last moment, or you are at a reasonable risk of all your effort being declared "not for mainline".

But yes, it HAS to be someone respected by both sides, or someone who is respected in LKML (he has to have power to reject bad interfaces since day one), and who has a large potential to become respected within the glibc community.

The kernel and the C library as a single project

Posted Dec 1, 2010 16:40 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Paging Roland McGrath... (who also has about as much pull on the glibc side of things as it is possible to have... of course he's also very busy and probably doesn't have time for this.)