Five years on [LWN.net]

Five years on

Posted Oct 3, 2010 4:45 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
In reply to: Five years on by pboddie
Parent article: Red Hat Responds to U.S. Patent and Trademark Office Request for Guidance on Bilski

Which brings us to the interesting case of the Web browser, does it not? After all, can't people who want Firefox or Opera install it themselves?

At first sight one may believe there's an important parallel, but there isn't under competition law.

If bundling is abused by a dominant vendor in one market to gain an unfair unadvantage in another market (which was the argument in the Media Player context, used by complainants as a precedent for the Internet Explorer discussion), then there's a competition problem. But note the "dominant vendor" requirement. There's no dominant PC company, and instead major players like Dell and HP do offer Windowsless Linux configurations.

Yes, but the operating system vendor is dominant.

It was found dominant. But being dominant isn't illegal. It's the combination of dominance and abuse that's illegal.

And doesn't competition regulation have anything to say about a bunch of companies getting together and stifling competition?

Sure, that would be called a cartel: a form of cooperation with the object of illegally restricting competition. There's no indication that Dell, HP and others have conspired against Linux. On the contrary, some vendors are known for a very pro-Linux attitude, but they all have to respond to what the market (in the context you care about: the consumer market) wants at this stage.

even though history suggests that in the EU, at least, they would rather mess around with things like media players and Web browsers than get to grips with the underlying causes.

It's interesting that you say this because five years ago I criticized the European Commission in a similar way. I said that on the one hand they were pursuing Microsoft with antitrust law but on the other hand supporting the very software patents Microsoft wants. I would have preferred a focus on software patents, especially since I was mostly concerned about patents on codecs in terms of the ability of others to compete with the Media Player.

But as far as interoperability is concerned, the European Commission is indeed looking at what might ultimately become a legislative solution that would affect all "significant market players" in order to establish general rules rather than only pursue individual cases,

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Five years on

Posted Oct 4, 2010 11:37 UTC (Mon) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link]

Rewinding to bring in the context...

They are not the same because a case of illegal tying is characterized by customers being forced to take something they don't want in order to buy something they need from a dominant vendor. No single PC vendor is dominant
Yes, but the operating system vendor is dominant.
It was found dominant. But being dominant isn't illegal. It's the combination of dominance and abuse that's illegal.

Which is what you already said before you trimmed away the context. Yes, you can get alternatives to Windows on hardware purchased through mainstream retail channels, if you managed to navigate to the disused lavatory where those alternatives are "on display", and you might even be able to ask for no operating system at all, but most "consumers" get told that Windows is "part of the product" and that they have to take their complaints to the vendor (the classic lazy retailer excuse, contrary to consumer regulation in various countries), who in turn often tell the customer the same thing or that their deal with Microsoft precludes any kind of refund. At which point, most people determined enough to pursue the matter that far (and few people are) are likely to give up and write off their loss, which is the gain of the "dominant vendor", of course.

Now maybe this isn't a "big R" regulatory matter that involves finger-wagging from the European Commission - although it is baffling that they entertain the dog and pony show that is the Web browser parade with all its back-and-forth between the EU and Microsoft, but not something effective like this - but it certainly is a matter that requires some kind of "small R" regulatory intervention, at least from the perspective of anyone whose idea of buying stuff isn't having extra stuff thrown into one's shopping basket and being made to pay for it. But I accept that our perspectives may differ on such matters.