|
|
Log in / Subscribe / Register

Mozilla Joins Open Invention Network (The Mozilla Blog)

On its blog, Mozilla has announced that it joined the Open Invention Network (OIN). "Patents owned by Open Invention Network are available royalty-free to any company, institution or individual that agrees not to assert its patents against the Linux System. By joining, Mozilla receives cross-licenses from other OIN licensees, but more importantly, for the long term, it affords us a chance to work with OIN in reducing IP threats to open source development and innovation. This may include a defensive publications program that would make it harder for others to patent work created by Mozilla contributors, sharing defensive tactics, and cooperation to minimize patent threats."

to post comments

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 1:01 UTC (Wed) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (10 responses)

The blog says they joined the patent pool, and "more importantly", they can work with OIN to reduce patent problems. Is that importance backwards?

When I look at OIN, I see the patent pool as clearly the most important part. It really is great that someone formed an organisation which got IBM, Oracle, and Philips to agree to protect certain software packages.

On the other hand, initiatives like defensive publication seem to me to be (maybe) worth trying but not really showing results.

Anyone got opinions on how good all the projects of OIN are other than the patent pool?

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 3:58 UTC (Wed) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (6 responses)

The press release and Mozilla's comments aren't very clear, or at least not convincing in key areas. For instance, Mozilla says that "[a]s a licensee, we’ll have access to OIN resources in case we’re threatened by operating entities with patents." By limiting this to "operating entities", they already admit implicitly that OIN can't help if non-operating entities, or "trolls", attack them. But more importantly, there is nothing in the OIN license agreement that provides a licensee (in this case, Mozilla) with any guaranteed access to any "OIN resources."

I'm sorry to say so, but given that Mozilla is an extremely deep-pocket foundation, they will sooner or later be required to pay royalties to different kinds of patent holders. There's no carve-out in patent law that says you can't collect money from a non-profit. OIN membership is unlikely to really help Mozilla in that event.

I guess one area in which Mozilla has serious problems is that of video codecs. They'd like to push VP8 through, alongside Google and Opera. But it's rather uncertain whether VP8 is "patent-free". In my opinion, there would be nothing wrong with Mozilla paying royalties to MPEG LA because MPEG LA's annual per-customer royalty cap wouldn't limit Mozilla's ability to still make Firefox available to large numbers of end users. Should MPEG LA indeed hold patents that read on VP8 and create a pool, I can't imagine that OIN would be able to do anything meaningful for Mozilla.

To address your question of OIN activities, it's true that they are involved with the "Linux Defenders" initiative and defensive publication is claimed to be part of its activities, although I actually believe that if people turn to them with interesting patentable ideas, they'll offer them a bounty in order to let them obtain a patent on them. By claiming it's just about defensive publication they simply want to encourage FOSS developers to feed them with patentable ideas.

There are three major purposes that OIN is supposed to serve. I explained them in more detail at the beginning of this blog post. To sum it up here, they buy up patents at auctions (which is almost like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a bucket); with the patents they acquire they want to create a mutually assured damage kind of threat in order to deter aggressors (however, a licensee like Mozilla would not have any contractual right to ask OIN to assert any of its patents against an aggressor, and there's no indication that any OIN patent has ever scared any aggressor in any significant way; being a non-operating entity itself, OIN wouldn't even be able to obtain an injunction in a US court due to eBay vs. MercExchange, nor could they take a case to the US International Trade Commission); and through the OIN licensee agreement, a cross-license is established between all licensees with respect to a constantly changing, arbitrary list of program files.

Looking at all of the patent assertion that's going on, there's no reason to assume that OIN has ever been able to help a FOSS company or other entity under patent attack. For an organization that's been around for five years, the absence of any credible success story can be seen as a failure, or more skeptically speaking, one may wonder what they're really up to. Given they've spent north of $100 million to acquire patents, I believe there's a hidden agenda and it's about disadvantaging FOSS competitors of the six OIN owner companies.

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 11:07 UTC (Wed) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (5 responses)

In my opinion, there would be nothing wrong with Mozilla paying royalties to MPEG LA because MPEG LA's annual per-customer royalty cap wouldn't limit Mozilla's ability to still make Firefox available to large numbers of end users.

Yes, but Free Software isn't about getting bottoms on seats, it's about the freedom for those end-users to modify and redistribute without getting sued or threatened. Even if they ultimately had no other choice, Mozilla paying up and pointing at everyone using their software as potential "sources of revenue" would probably attract the same scorn that various other companies have endured when they've handed over money to the cartel.

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 12:59 UTC (Wed) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (4 responses)

This is another typical example of having to reconcile the Free Software vision with legal, economic and political realities.

The question of whether Firefox and other Mozilla offerings are Free Software in the strictest sense of the term can pretty certainly by answered with No because someone, somewhere, will have patents that read on them and that are defensible in court.

In the particular case of video codecs, Mozilla could (if, for instance, MPEG LA has patents that read on VP8) always decide not to ship any video codec, leaving it to users to obtain plug-ins.

In terms of "the cartel", there are different kinds of patent alliances such as OIN who might be classified as cartels. But that's a question of competition law. In a colloquial sense, the kind of cartel I see primarily is unanimous consensus among larger industry players (including Google) that they want patent protection. That includes all OIN members (argualy also Red Hat, which isn't credible to me as an opponent of software patents and actually participates in all sorts of activities that strengthen the patent system; and Red Hat's patent promise does not protect the FOSS universe against the event of Red Hat selling patents to third parties, or some other scenarios).

Even Mozilla is presumably funded by companies favoring patent protection.

Of course, since Mozilla per se is a non-profit foundation, patent holders might be more interested in going after commercial operators shipping Mozilla software along with their products. I guess that's what will happen in the event some video codec patent holders go after VP8, and in that case it would actually be better if Mozilla could negotiate a license deal on behalf of its entire ecosystem.

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 17:49 UTC (Wed) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link] (3 responses)

Oh, come on. By that standard not much besides the customary "Hello, world!" proggie is "free software".

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 17:55 UTC (Wed) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link] (2 responses)

I don't disagree with your assessment that pretty much any somewhat functional piece of software will infringe on some third-party patents.

Therefore, the strictest interpretation of Free Software is utopian under today's patent regime.

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 20:50 UTC (Wed) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link]

For my pragmatist part that means that the (strict) "free" vs "non-free" distinction is useless...

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 25, 2010 9:09 UTC (Sat) by steffen780 (guest, #68142) [Link]

It depends on your jurisdiction. Until this summer patents were void by law in Germany, as recognised by the highest appeals court. Unfortunately now that court has made a complete and completely unexplained U-turn, making any executable program patentable. But I'm sure there's plenty of countries left where software patents are invalid/non-existent.

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 22, 2010 17:53 UTC (Wed) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link] (2 responses)

That clashes over patents held by OIN aren't in your daily news feed doesn't mean they didn't happen, or that the mere existence of the patent pool hasn't deterred many would-be miscreants.

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 23, 2010 1:30 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (1 responses)

> the patent pool [...] deterred

Can you explain that?

I'm a fan of the pool because there's a big non-aggression pact and IBM, Philips, and Oracle have signed. That's great.

You're saying it has deterrent value too. That, I don't understand.

I guess the hope is that if a software company with patents threatens a free software project, OIN can say to the aggressor "We notice you violate x, y, and z patents, let's just call it quits". Right?

Only problem is, that doesn't make sense. OIN is steered by six companies, and some/most of the patents they hold were transfered by these companies. If those patents are used against a patent holder, the response will be to sue the company that owned that patent or sue one or all of the six members of OIN.

For comparison, what if Microsoft transfered some patents to CodePlex, and CodePlex sued IBM. Would IBM counter sue CodePlex or Microsoft? Obviously the latter. It would be clear that CodePlex was just an intermediary.

Similarly, if OIN threatens to use Oracle patents against Microsoft, Microsoft is going to see that OIN is just an intermediary, and they will threaten a counter suit against Oracle, not OIN. Of course, reality is that this would never happen because Oracle would not leave itself open to that, i.e. they surely don't authorise OIN to use their patents against Microsoft.

In short: I don't think OIN's patents can be used for counter threats, so there's no deterrent.

A lot of people share your idea of the pool being a deterrent, so maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find any explanation. Can anyone explain it?

The pool and the other stuff

Posted Sep 24, 2010 10:54 UTC (Fri) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

Can anyone explain this? Or is calling OIN's pool a deterrent simply a mistaken assumption?


Copyright © 2010, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds