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Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extended file stats available [ver #6]

From:  Linus Torvalds <>
Subject:  Re: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extended file stats available [ver #6]
Date:  Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:47:46 -0700
Message-ID:  <>
Cc:  David Howells <>, Jan Engelhardt <>,,,,,,,
Archive-link:  Article

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Volker Lendecke
<> wrote:
> The nice thing about this is also that if this is supposed
> to be fully usable for Windows clients, the birthtime needs
> to be changeable. That's what NTFS semantics gives you, thus
> Windows clients tend to require it.

Ok. So it's not really a creation date, exactly the same way ctime
isn't at all a creation date.

And maybe that actually hints at a better solution: maybe a better
model is to create a new per-thread flag that says "do ctime updates
the way windows does them".

So instead of adding another "btime" - which isn't actually what even
windows does - just admit that the _real_ issue is that Unix and
Windows semantics are different for the pre-existing "ctime".

The fact is, windows has "access time", "modification time" and
"creation time" _exactly_ like UNIX. It's just that the ctime has
slightly different semantics in windows vs unix. So quite frankly,
it's totally insane to introduce a "birthtime", when that isn't even
what windows wants, just because people cannot face the actual real

Tell me why we shouldn't just do this right?

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