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Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Posted Apr 9, 2010 21:34 UTC (Fri) by xiphmont (guest, #58693)
In reply to: Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle by Daiz
Parent article: Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

> My main argument against Ogg in the web is that it separates
> content to web and non-web.

Hmm, OK, I see that concern. But I already need to do that in that I
record and edit at high bitrate and have to reencode for reasonable web
rates anyway. I'm not going to stream at 25Mbit.

> I'd rather have Theora+Vorbis in MKV
> than Theora+Vorbis in Ogg, though more preferrably I'd use
> H.264+Vorbis in MKV for my web video needs if HTML5 <video>
> supported that properly in major browsers.

...but only if you don't have to pay for it! Ahhh.... somebody
does. Even in France.

> I'm quite sure many
> people would be delighted about this too, since it'd basically
> mean that their personal copy and the web copy can be the exact
> same file without compromising quality.

The day that MPEG-LA renounces its h264 patents, I'll dance in
the streets. The argument will be over, and everyone including
99.99% of businesses will have won. But I expect that not only
will MPEG find a way to keep milking it way past 2028, but by
then the entire patent pool will be pushing its new thing and
you'll be here arguing that we're not right in the head for
thinking Ogg NextGen can stand up against h265, and h265 isn't
really that much money, and everyone is using h265 anyway and you
can put h265 in MKV and not Ogg so Ogg sucks.

> How about you Xiph guys rather spend your time trying to kill
> software patents completely?

We'll get right on that.

> I bet you'd manage to get that done faster than improving Theora
> encoders to the point that they beat x264, and then we'd have no
> need to argue about whether something is patent encumbered or not
> anymore.

Ah, so I was being trolled all along. Oh well.


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Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Posted Apr 10, 2010 12:20 UTC (Sat) by Daiz (guest, #65138) [Link]

>Ah, so I was being trolled all along. Oh well.

I wasn't trolling even one bit. Are you seriously implying that Xiph (or anyone else) could ever make libtheora beat x264 in speed and quality? If you are, get real. Honestly. That's just silly. Even if x264 development stopped completely right now, it still wouldn't ever happen.

Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Posted Apr 10, 2010 15:46 UTC (Sat) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

Your previous comments had some merit but this one sounds like pure troll. The only point you make is that nobody could make libtheora beat x264, then you fail to support your position even a little bit? Textbook definition of fanboi troll. Very disappointing.

> it still wouldn't ever happen.

Dude, ever is a very long time. Speaking of getting real...

Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Posted Apr 11, 2010 9:03 UTC (Sun) by Daiz (guest, #65138) [Link]

Look. Video compression is a field that is patented to hell and back. As long as Theora aims to remain patent unencumbered, it has to avoid so many things that could make it better that its utterly ridiculous. x264 developers have to care about absolutely none of these.

Also, as it is, x264 development is a lot more active than libtheora development is. From the beginning of 2009, Theora has received about 42 updates. In the same time, x264 has had 440 revisions.

The only way libtheora could ever beat x264 pretty much requires that software patents stop existing, and at that point we wouldn't even need it anymore.

Thus, libtheora will never beat x264 in quality in speed.

Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Posted Apr 11, 2010 10:03 UTC (Sun) by gmaxwell (guest, #30048) [Link]

As far as I can tell you're arguing, quite ferociously I might add, with yourself.


Ogg and the multimedia container format struggle

Posted Apr 11, 2010 14:06 UTC (Sun) by Daiz (guest, #65138) [Link]

Yeah, because xiphmont and bronson are totally me, right?


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