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MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 0:15 UTC (Wed) by dlang (subscriber, #313)
In reply to: MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin by drag
Parent article: MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

it's long past time for Fedora to support ARM, and several other architectures.

unfortunately it's more than just pointing a cross-compiler at your tree and letting it churn for a while. Debian has been doing the work, and a lot of testing. RedHat will now need to start doing this.

I also wonder how well it's going to work to base a phone distro (which may not be upgraded entirely for years) on a distro that only has a 12-month support window.

I've built small system images from both RedHat and Debian distros. It's _much_ easier to strip down the debian distro. The OLPC software fiasco had many causes, but I think that one of them was the problem of trying to balance between forking packages and living with the bloat.

In this case I suspect that after a year or so all that 'based on Fedora' will mean is that it uses rpm packages, but the software itself will probably have very little in common with the then-current Fedora distro.


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MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 0:53 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

unfortunately it's more than just pointing a cross-compiler at your tree and letting it churn for a while. Debian has been doing the work, and a lot of testing. RedHat will now need to start doing this.

Well.. it kinda is for some developers. If your building a embedded system this has been very acceptable solution traditionally. It drives me batty, but for most devices you have a single application you need to support. Once you get that working on your OS then your goal is to never touch your OS again. It's done. So a one-time effort of compiling your own stuff and doing a bunch of hacks and work arounds is perfectly acceptable.

Of course that is not really something useful for a long term project that wants to support lots of different stuff. It'll take some effort and it won't happen overnight, but most of the work is already done by Debian.

Like I said before if you step back and look at the distros.. they are in their own little sandboxes, but they all use just about the same versions of software in the same ways with the same code base. There is relatively little variation. So most of the work that Debian has put into their ports will hugely benefit Fedora if they decide to go that direction.

also wonder how well it's going to work to base a phone distro (which may not be upgraded entirely for years) on a distro that only has a 12-month support window.

It probably does not matter a whole lot.

Right now you'll need the latest and greatest QT4 version to get what is needed commercially. Is that in Debian Stable now? Nope. When is the next Debian stable going to come out and get that support? Not even Debian knows. It could be in 8 months, it could be in 2 years. What if you need to back port newer features? Any code you touch means your on your own.

If Debian stuck to a time-based release then Nokia and other third party folks could coordinate and work with them. But the way it is now they can't. I know this is beating a dead horse, but that is just the reality of the situation.

So while Debian may offer long term support for Stable.. it is pretty much worthless for anybody that wants to make a real product based on Debian.

I've built small system images from both RedHat and Debian distros. It's _much_ easier to strip down the debian distro. The OLPC software fiasco had many causes, but I think that one of them was the problem of trying to balance between forking packages and living with the bloat.

Ditto. Debian is indeed much easier to work with on small systems.

Like I said before there are upsides and downsides. In the end it will probably be much easier to work with Fedora to sliming down their system and removing bloat then it is to get Debian to change their policies.

In this case I suspect that after a year or so all that 'based on Fedora' will mean is that it uses rpm packages, but the software itself will probably have very little in common with the then- current Fedora distro.

Yes. It would be unfortunate if the same thing that happenned to Maemo and Debian would happen to Fedora and Meego.

Of course Fedora folks already have a Moblin version of their OS out. So it is not like the Moblin and Fedora folks have had the same problems that the Maemo and Debian folks have had.

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 1:14 UTC (Wed) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link]

I will also point out that RedHat used to support more architectures than they do now. They dropped them because they were more work to support than they were willing to expend. So far they have not shown indications that they want to start doing so again.

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 5:38 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

You have no idea what you are talking about at all OLPC uses a stock
Fedora system with only the kernel being different and Fedora has ARM
support for quite sometime now

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 6:10 UTC (Wed) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link]

OLPC now uses a stock fedora process, but there have been many times when people attempted to trim bloat (very important on a machine with 1G flash and 256M ram) only to be told "but we have to do it this way because that's how it's done in Fedora"

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 6:17 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

Fedora is not a immutable system and OLPC folks have commit access to the
Fedora repository and can work with the maintainers to change things to be
suitable for both as they have done that many times in the past to the
point that nothing diverges except a few patches for the kernel and your
quote needs a citation

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 17, 2010 16:21 UTC (Wed) by sbishop (guest, #33061) [Link]

"... and your quote needs a citation"

And your post needs punctuation.

I'm sorry. It rhymed. I couldn't help myself. :)

MeeGo: the merger of Maemo and Moblin

Posted Feb 26, 2010 22:13 UTC (Fri) by oak (guest, #2786) [Link]

> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM

"CPU and Architecture Target
The baseline ARM CPU architecture that we have chosen to support is
ARMv5TE..."

Uh, that's not much of help on ARMv7 machines. Yes, the code runs, but it
doesn't really take advantage of the HW (NEON etc).


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