gstreamer decoders [LWN.net]

gstreamer decoders

Posted Jan 31, 2010 13:21 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
In reply to: gstreamer decoders by DonDiego
Parent article: Blizzard: HTML5 video and H.264 - what history tells us and why we're standing with the web

Given his earlier actions in poking MPEG LA with a stick, apparently in
the hope they'd wake up and say 'ffmpeg? what's that? stop, now!', I think
his not caring about free software goes without saying. Or, rather, given
a choice between free software and his being right, his being right would
come first every time.

(apologies for sexist phrasing, but this particular odious characteristic
is in my experience restricted to males. Generally young ones.)

to post comments

gstreamer decoders

Posted Jan 31, 2010 20:37 UTC (Sun) by Trelane (guest, #56877) [Link] (8 responses)

"Given his earlier actions in poking MPEG LA with a stick, apparently in
the hope they'd wake up and say 'ffmpeg? what's that? stop, now!', I think
his not caring about free software goes without saying."

It wasn't poking with a stick, your assumptions about my motivation are completely off the mark, and your conclusion based on the above is also completely wrong. Fortunately, I don't have to prove myself to random jerks on the Internet.

"Or, rather, given a choice between free software and his being right, his being right would come first every time."

Also incorrect. Not surprising. I think your own prejudices color your perceptions here.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 0:45 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (7 responses)

Well, what was I supposed to think? If your supposition that ffmpeg had
been ignored by the MPEG LA because they were beneath their notice had
proven correct, your own actions would have done nothing less than bring
another patent attack on free software. Well done.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 1:09 UTC (Mon) by Trelane (guest, #56877) [Link] (2 responses)

That was never my supposition. Perhaps you are thinking of
"
Posted Jan 26, 2010 21:32 UTC (Tue) by roc (subscriber, #30627) [Link]
I guess they're not important enough to be sued by MPEG-LA.
"

All I did was ask for clarification on their FAQ. At worst, I hastened the inevitable by some unknowable quantity. At best, my email has helped show better where the licensing necessities are.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 1:14 UTC (Mon) by Trelane (guest, #56877) [Link] (1 responses)

ugh. my thinking with a screaming baby ain't the clearest. at best would have been a fairytale ending of "GPL implementation is OK with us!" at worst i've improved our (or just my) knowledge of the licensing situation at the cost of *perhaps* hastening the inevitable by some unknowable quantity.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 4, 2010 0:30 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Screaming baby explains everything, I think. Rationality is not expected
under those circumstances. (Sanity is hard enough to maintain.)

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 16:04 UTC (Mon) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] (3 responses)

So you're a fan of security through obscurity nix? I'm surprised.

I don't see a downside to getting everything into the open. It might mean some short term difficulty for the ffmpeg project (difficulty that I'm sure they're expecting anyway), but it means long-term stability for everybody.

Nice work Trelane. You're doing this for all of us. Thanks!

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 16:36 UTC (Mon) by Trelane (guest, #56877) [Link]

It still wasn't my intent to get anyone in trouble. Let's be clear on that point. I was solely looking for information (and if they'd said "Oh, we never thought of that! GPL is a great license, and you totally can consider yourselves covered!" or something like that, that'd've been great. As it is, we now know a bit more about implementations they don't care about making pay (see the thresholds I asked to be clarified.) And we have it in writing (as much as email is; I do have logs too))

It's also the start of a dialog, if they choose to go there. I'd be willing to talk with them about Free Software and patents and direct them at more knowledgeable people. Let's try to keep this positive!

legal trouble

Posted Feb 2, 2010 15:29 UTC (Tue) by DonDiego (guest, #24141) [Link]

For some reason people keep expecting trouble for us and expecting that we expect trouble. We have had zero trouble in the 10 odd years of our existence and are firmly convinced that we will see the same amount of trouble in the next decade. See also

http://multimedia.cx/eggs/legal-threat-00001/

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 4, 2010 1:14 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

The law and security have the same relationship to each other as theology
has to religion: that is, none to speak of.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Jan 31, 2010 23:25 UTC (Sun) by DonDiego (guest, #24141) [Link] (2 responses)

Quit worrying about FFmpeg keeping a low profile. We're not a secret to any of the players in the industry and not to the MPEG LA.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 0:52 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Oh I'm not worrying. I entirely believe you: ffmpeg is too influential for
MPEG LA not to know about it. But *if* the supposition (bandied about by
several here including IIRC Trelane) were true that ffmpeg had been
ignored because it was too ignorable or not a revenue generator or
something, then Trelane had just poked a dragon (or at least a troll) with
a stick. This is generally considered a bad idea, even if it turns out
that the dragon knows who you are and doesn't want to eat you today.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 19:45 UTC (Mon) by rawler (guest, #60308) [Link]

Personally, my guess would be that ffmpeg may be too influential. Banning
ffmpeg for patent-reasons would be pretty much poking not the bear, but the
bee-hive of pissed of techno-geeks everywhere.

As the mail states, there are intentional exceptions for low-volume (in
business speak, roughly the same as low-income) "in order to encourage
adoption". I would assume that for peace:s sake, MPEG LA is avoiding
confrontation to much provide the patent opposition with too much fuel for
their fire, and further de-rail wide-spread adoption.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 1, 2010 14:38 UTC (Mon) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link] (1 responses)

>(apologies for sexist phrasing, but this particular odious characteristic
>is in my experience restricted to males. Generally young ones.)

I think this kind of comment is highly out of place on LWN.

gstreamer decoders

Posted Feb 4, 2010 1:12 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

It's from personal experience with myself. We were all young and stupid
once.