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Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

From:  Lucas Rocha <lucasr-AT-gnome.org>
To:  gnome-announce-list-AT-gnome.org, devel-announce-list-AT-gnome.org
Subject:  Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28!
Date:  Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:54:06 +0100
Message-ID:  <31a62e6f0909231554g78187b8cjf9e7048e41ffefa4@mail.gmail.com>
Archive-link:  Article

              ======================================
              Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28!
              ======================================

Today, the GNOME Project celebrates the release of GNOME 2.28, the
latest version of the popular, multi-platform free desktop environment
and of its developer platform. Released on schedule, to the day, GNOME
2.28 builds on top of a long series of successful six months releases to
offer the best experience to users and developers.

For more than 10 years now, the project has been seeing a tremendous
amount of work. And as usual, it's hard to come back to a previous
version of GNOME once you've tried GNOME 2.28, which is probably the
best compliment the project can receive.

This six months effort wouldn't have been possible without the whole
GNOME community, made of contributors from all around the world:
hackers, documentors, usability and accessibility specialists,
translators, maintainers, sysadmins, companies, artists, users and
testers. GNOME would not exist without all those people. Thanks very
much to every one of them!

You'll find detailed information about GNOME 2.28 in our release notes:

   http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.28/

Most distributions have already started integrating GNOME 2.28 in their
development version, or as package updates to their stable version.

Some parties are already happening in various places to celebrate this
release. But tomorrow morning, you can be sure that GNOME contributors
will already be working on their plans for the next version of GNOME,
due in March, 2010.

Enjoy! And be proud of this release!

- The GNOME Release Team
-- 
devel-announce-list mailing list
devel-announce-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce-list



(Log in to post comments)

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 23, 2009 23:13 UTC (Wed) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]

Yay! Great work guys and girls!

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 0:46 UTC (Thu) by hadess (subscriber, #24252) [Link]

Yay me (and the others)! But especially yay me, right?

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 0:56 UTC (Thu) by awalton (subscriber, #57713) [Link]

Yes, yay you too hadess. Yay all of our GNOMEy contributors!

Hope Gnote replaces Tomboy

Posted Sep 24, 2009 1:43 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

"Tomboy Online is also scheduled for GNOME 2.30"

I hope this changes before 2.30 is actually released. Debian currently has Tomboy, and thus Mono, as a dependency of GNOME (I did a Debian install recently). This is a bad decision on Debian's part, but I guess they looked into removing it but found the depth of Tomboy's integration into GNOME to be such that removing it would be quite a bit of work.

The existence of Mono is great, but it has to be distributed in a way such that it could be painlessly removed from every distribution the day MS starts spreading patent FUD, or pressured royalty demands, or litigation. That would keep us out of danger, and it would also discourage MS from every doing those things since it would know the result would simply be the end of Mono usage.

Hope Gnote replaces Tomboy

Posted Sep 24, 2009 2:20 UTC (Thu) by SEMW (subscriber, #52697) [Link]

> Debian currently has Tomboy, and thus Mono, as a dependency of GNOME

Technically true, but misleading. Tomboy is a dependency of the "gnome" metapackage, yes. But the "gnome" metapackage is just the metapackage for all gnome-related projects, so certainly should have Tomboy. The default Gnome Desktop install is the "gnome-desktop" metapackage, which does not contain either Tomboy nor mono.

> I guess they looked into removing it but found the depth of Tomboy's integration into GNOME to be such that removing it would be quite a bit of work.

What integration? Removing Tomboy from gnome takes all of 10 seconds and one "apt-get remove tomboy", and removes only tomboy -- "apt-cache rdepends tomboy" lists nothing that depend on tomboy whatsoever. (That's on Ubuntu, I doubt it's different on Debian proper).

> The existence of Mono is great, but it has to be distributed in a way such that it could be painlessly removed from every distribution the day MS starts spreading patent FUD

Removing mono altogether ("apt-get purge mono") takes not that much longer than removing Tomboy; and removes, apart from the mono libraries, only tomboy and f-spot (and gnome-do and bless for me, but they're not gnome projects). So, with respect, I'm not certain MS is the only one spreading FUD here.

Hope Gnote replaces Tomboy

Posted Sep 24, 2009 2:32 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

Aha, thanks for the clarification about package names.

My recent experience was that I asked apt-get to "remove tomboy" and it said it would also "remove gnome" - no indication that this didn't require removing GNOME.

Hope Gnote replaces Tomboy

Posted Sep 24, 2009 11:46 UTC (Thu) by jond (subscriber, #37669) [Link]

If you installed the metapackage "gnome" using aptitude, then all of its
dependencies would be marked as having been automatically installed.
Whenever you remove a package using aptitude, it will check the
dependencies of that package. If a) they are marked as having been
automatically installed, and b) no other installed package also depends on
it, then they will also be removed.

Thus, if you have not otherwise indicate you desire the dependencies of the
"gnome" metapackage (you can toggle automatic-status within aptitude on a
per-package basis, or just manually mark one or more of the dependencies
for installation) and the gnome metapackage's dependencies are no longer
being fulfilled (because you've tried to remove tomboy, or whatever), the
rest will go as well.

This is potentially confusing for people who type "aptitude install gnome"
and subsequently remove a dependency; however, I don't think in practise
this can be that many people. Most people will obtain GNOME by default when
they install Debian and select "desktop environment". This method does not
install the "gnome" metapackage (nor tomboy).

I understand that newer versions of apt itself also have this automatic-
dependency tracking, but I don't think the one in Debian stable does.

Hope Gnote replaces Tomboy

Posted Sep 24, 2009 13:06 UTC (Thu) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]

gnome depends on (among others)

tomboy | gnote

That is: either of them will satisfy the dependency, but tomboy is the default if both are reasonable candidates.

So: install gnote and then remove tomboy. Something along the lines of:

aptitude install gnote tomboy_

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 6:38 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

I noticed in the Release Notes that Totem was only mentioned with regards to the removal of the xine support, but then... "DVD playback in GNOME's Media Player has been improved...".

Excuse my ignorance, but is this "GNOME Media Player" the same as Novell's GNOME Media Player, gmp, which is, to quote, "a media player application built around the GNOME framework, using mono, gtk#, glade# and gstreamer"?!

If so, doesn't this make GNOME===Mono?

When the GNOME Release Notes is constantly advertising its Mono-based components, how can anyone say that GNOME does not belong to Novell's passion for Mono?

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 7:25 UTC (Thu) by AlexHudson (guest, #41828) [Link]

http://projects.gnome.org/totem/

I mean, good grief.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 7:53 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

This is not an answer! I did NOT say Totem doesn't exist, I asked about the "GNOME Media Player", which is mentioned in a different paragraph than Totem!

Can't you fscking read some Release Notes properly?!

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 7:57 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]

Please watch your language.

Anyway, your trolling. The answer has already been given, you're just ignoring it.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:10 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

I'm sory to say, but only stupid guys use the words "troll", "trolling" when they don't agree with the interlocutor. For once, I'll exclude *you* from the named list, but it's my human right to a dignity, and "troll" is the supreme insult coming from fanboys who are too lazy to use *arguments* instead of sticking idiotic labels to people.

What was the answer? That Tomboy is not "a dependency" of GNOME?

GNOME is *actively advertising* its Mono-based applications, including Tomboy, F-Spot and this "GNOME Media Player" I've never heard of before!

Is this *normal*?

How can a simple question raise so easily idiotic reactions of the kind "You're trolling"?

I'm fscking using Linux since 1994, so I HAVE THE MORAL RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND I HAVE THE RIGHT *NOT* TO BE CALLED A TROLL!

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:39 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

@all: How about we all just forget about what we think about beranger's writing style for a minute. Can someone confirm that "GNOME Media Player" in the release notes means Totem (and not Novell's mono-based thing called "GNOME Media Player")?

@beranger: I actually thought your first question was a good one, and I also don't see how a link to the Totem page is an answer, but if you quickly jump to allcaps and asterisks, everyone will just get distracted. This was easily predictable, so doing it is a way to choose to fail in getting an answer.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 11:49 UTC (Thu) by jond (subscriber, #37669) [Link]

"How about we all just forget about what we think about beranger's writing
style for a minute.".

Whilst it in no way invalidates any arguments he/she may make; the Web is
too full of such heated and impenetrable diatribe that many people can (and
perhaps should) choose to focus their time and attention on well written and
polite comments instead.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:40 UTC (Thu) by GhePeU (subscriber, #56133) [Link]

Are we reading too much boycottnovell, aren't we?

totem == GNOME[b]'s[/b] Media Player != GNOME Media Player

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:59 UTC (Thu) by hppnq (guest, #14462) [Link]

How can a simple question raise so easily idiotic reactions of the kind "You're trolling"?

Because the gmp page you link to is four years old.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 9:10 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]

No, you do not have a right not to be called a troll.

Read http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.26/#rnusers...

Same error was made there (apart from the developer, please often call it Media instead of Movie). Anyway, if someone points you to totem and you still insist on trying to raise a non-issue, then yeah.. you're trolling.

And about:
"GNOME is *actively advertising* its Mono-based applications, including Tomboy, F-Spot and this "GNOME Media Player" I've never heard of before!"

F-Spot is not part of GNOME.

I am not aware we're advertising Tomboy. Would be nice to do more advertisements in general though.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 13:53 UTC (Thu) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]

>Same error was made there (apart from the developer, please often call it Media instead of Movie). Anyway, if someone points you to totem and you still insist on trying to raise a non-issue, then yeah.. you're trolling.

Must you be so obnoxious?

He *specifically* said that it was mentioned separately to Totem, which would sensibly be interpreted as meaning that they are different things. The expected uselessly-terse-and-insulting OSS-style response was given, and when it was pointed out that the person giving the response had clearly not read the original post, was immediately labeled a troll.

Your behaviour has been apalling, and the fact that he then went totally non-linear does not excuse it.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Oct 15, 2009 2:28 UTC (Thu) by mfedyk (guest, #55303) [Link]

Filesystem checking is serious business.

What does that have to do with media players? ;)

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:46 UTC (Thu) by xanni (subscriber, #361) [Link]

>> is this "GNOME Media Player" the same as Novell's GNOME Media Player, gmp

No, Totem is the standard GNOME Media player. "Totem" is the name, "GNOME Media player" is a description of the function.

Hope that helps.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:58 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

Then how do you explain these?

3.5. Media Player Improvements
DVD playback in GNOME's Media Player has been improved...
5.9. Totem
...removed from Totem...

The italics are from the original Release Notes.

Are the end users considered so dumb that they need be told of "GNOME's Media Player", whereas only the developers are able to understand what Toterm is?

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 9:14 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]

<i>Are the end users considered so dumb that they need be told of "GNOME's Media Player", whereas only the developers are able to understand what Toterm is? </i>

It is Totem, not Toterm.

Anyway, you're writing style is really suggestive in a bad way. Totem is shown as "Movie Player" in the menus. So yes, users should be shown the name they see in the menu, not something they wouldn't be able to find.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 10:05 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

"Toterm": I can't edit a comment, once posted. This is the software frameweork of LWN.net.

About the name in the menus: this is one more proof that GNOME is treating its users for idiots. Heck, are they Windows users? Are they Mac users? I suppose MS-DOS users were the smartest of all :-)

But... go find a Windows XP box, and look for the Accessories menu. You'll find there "Notepad", not "Text Editor". Uh? (Of course, Paint is pbrush.exe and WordPad is write.exe, but this is legacy.)

OTOH, are they ashamed of the name Totem? Is the user really supposed not to know the real name of the application?

The full name is "Totem Movie Player", see http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Totem_...

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 10:09 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

BTW, is the official name still "Totem Movie Player", or has it changed for "Totem Media Player"?! Is it still looking like this?

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 10:38 UTC (Thu) by tao (subscriber, #17563) [Link]

2.28.0-2 in Debian just says "Movie Player" in the menu bar, but "Totem Movie Player" in the About box. No use of Media Player, so I can definitely understand the original poster's frustration.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 11:15 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]

I already explained it is often called Media Player, even in the previous release notes.

I can see that it is wrong. However, it is just used as an excuse to talk about Mono

Showing what some other OS does, whatever.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 11:53 UTC (Thu) by jond (subscriber, #37669) [Link]

Do you happen to know where the right place is to report bugs in the release
notes? If the same error occurs in 2.26 and 2.30, it suggests that the error
isn't being reported in the right place. I can't see an appropriate
"product" on bugzilla.gnome.org.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 12:13 UTC (Thu) by beranger (guest, #39167) [Link]

They don't even seem to have a 'product manager':
2.28: These release notes were compiled by Paul Cutler
2.26: These release notes were compiled by Davyd Madeley

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 14:23 UTC (Thu) by alankila (guest, #47141) [Link]

What's stupid about GNOME is not that programs in menus are called by names like Movie Player. What is stupid is having a name like Totem, which offers no way to know the function of the program by its name.

Let's take another clever name: Baobab. This is a tree that grows a long, smooth trunk with branches at very high level from ground. If it kinda looks like a metaphor for a filesystem tree, is it then a good name for a Disk Usage Analyzer? I couldn't disagree more.

If only every application had simple, boring name that bore direct resemblance to its function, like, say, gnome-media-player or gnome-disk-usage-analyzer, GNOME would be that much less annoying.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 14:26 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Of course this is not just a GNOME problem. KDE 4's names are often so bizarre I can't remember which is which (although most of the really weird ones like nepomuk are infrastructural components that users don't need to know about, I hope).

And of course this is not a recent problem. Software has been given ridiculous names for longer than I've been alive...

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 14:36 UTC (Thu) by xanni (subscriber, #361) [Link]

The problem with generic names is the high chance of a collision. Unusual names are hopefully less likely to be already in use and may also be more memorable - and more likely to match search results usefully!

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 16:36 UTC (Thu) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]

For a couple of months I was using the KDE menu which didn't show the actual program name for each entry, just the description (eg. 'Web Browser', 'Music Player'). I think they've fixed that now, but it was amazing how much harder that made it to use - trying to open a program might take several seconds, where previously I could let my subconscious do it in a fraction of the time. It's particularly bad when you have two programs which do 'the same thing', in this simplified view of the world.

I think generic names might make the system easier to use for the very first time, but why optimise a user-interface for that state, if it makes it harder for ever more? What's wrong with having entries for 'Totem media player', *and* 'Amarok media player'?

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 15:16 UTC (Thu) by SEJeff (subscriber, #51588) [Link]

<sarcasm>And Amarok or kicker are just completely obvious names for media
players and docks respectively</sarcasm>

If you didn't write the software you have 0 say in what it is called. Open
source is (generally speaking) a meritocracy. This is not gnome, this is the
open source world in general. If you want gnome-disk-usage-analyzer, quit
whining and write it yourself. Then make it better than baobab (granted this
is an odd name) and get it in gnome proper. Then everyone wins except the
trolls. As previously mentioned, descriptions such as, "Movie Player", or
"Totem Movie Player" _are_ representative of the function of the application.

Sometimes it is sad that LWN doesn't have comment moderation akin to digg.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 21:06 UTC (Thu) by kov (subscriber, #7423) [Link]

GNOME is not treating users as stupid, it just focus on different kinds of users than some other environments. If you like software that exposes its guts, and expects you to know about its internals, and specific names, that is OK, my mom doesn't really care, she just wants to watch videos. Me as well, for what is worth.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 23:10 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]

Ditto for me.

Gnome, to me, is about taking something that is complex and trying to make it
easy and approachable as possible. Its not expecting the users to understand
what is going on. Its not about providing a bazillion different options that
users are presented with at every turn.

So I only have to care about the things that I care about. So what if I have
to occasionally dig down to gconf to get a specific tweak I want? Its not a
serious hardship and there is no reason why every other user in the world is
forced to make a choice based on my choice or even know if it exists.

Celebrating the release of GNOME 2.28

Posted Sep 24, 2009 22:43 UTC (Thu) by Burgundavia (subscriber, #25172) [Link]

The Novell link you post looks to be a community project that never got off the ground. Thus calling it Novell's is like calling a project that hosts on sf, sourceforge's.


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