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Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

ars Technica takes a look at Nokia's upcoming Maemo 5. "A Nokia product codenamed RX-51 recently cleared FCC approval and has now appeared in leaked photos that made their way onto the Internet; it appears to be the long-awaited Maemo 5 product. The source code of Maemo 5 provided some early clues about the RX-51 last year. Maemo fans have been poring through it and documenting various technical details that provide insight into the hardware. The new pictures also seem to indicate that the device is a phone, and not just a Web tablet like its predecessors. This would be a major step forward for Maemo and could reflect a more Linux-centric mobile strategy for Nokia."

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Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 14:50 UTC (Thu) by xav (guest, #18536) [Link] (21 responses)

OK, now what's my next device ? Palm Pre or Nokia "RX-51" ?

I like our times, when I must choose between several linux phones :)

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 15:10 UTC (Thu) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (2 responses)

Ya. Don't forget Android either.

Motorola is suppose to be coming out with low-end 'smartphones' running Android for ~$100.

------------

All I know is that I won't buy a phone unless I know can hack it first...

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 15:16 UTC (Thu) by xav (guest, #18536) [Link] (1 responses)

Yes, and for that I think Palm Pre & Maemo look better than Android, even if none of them is perfect.

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 17, 2009 9:16 UTC (Mon) by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624) [Link]

Well there is still the OpenMoko FreeRunner, though it's not 3G and
doesn't have a camera you *can* run Debian, Android, OpenWRT, Gentoo,
OpenEmbedded, etc on it (for various levels of functionality).

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 15:56 UTC (Thu) by tajyrink (subscriber, #2750) [Link] (5 responses)

If only more of them would be usable with alternative software distributions, and installing such together with bootloader, when/if available, would be possible without risking bricking the device...

/me uses Debian to run the phone, wondering how long it takes it's feasible to install one's favorite distribution on some other phone besides FreeRunner, similar to non-handheld PCs.

Insert standard "but it's just a mobile phone!" vs. "no, it's a mini computer you can call with" discussions (I'm in the latter group).

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 16:17 UTC (Thu) by mrfredsmoothie (guest, #3100) [Link]

Yeah, Nokia in particular screwed up bigtime in that regard (IMHO) w/ the n770 by regarding it as a "consumer device" that could be sealed up and abandoned as long as it "just worked," and regarding Maemo developers primarily as a way to get free applications to attract the masses to their platform.

I'm curious to see the new Maemo device, and to see how Nokia's promises of greater openness pan out, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for any of these large handset manufacturers to provide me with what I really want -- a relatively inexpensive phone which is as open as a PC that I can play w/ and run whatever software I want (i.e., "a mini computer I can call w/").

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 16:23 UTC (Thu) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (3 responses)

I am in the latter group.

I want to be able to run Debian on a phone. Being able to run X would be even a bigger bonus.

Think about it... With a Pocket PC I can run a X server (Xming) and a SSH shell, If I am going to get a 'linux phone' its going to have to do better then that!

I can get any cheap Sony Walkman phone (which is what I have now) and get the ability to install and run Java apps, Nintendo emulators, GPS, Google Mails, Google mail, Yahoo mail, built-in IMAP support, SSH shell, hack it for tethering, stream video from the internet, run Opera Mini, stream audio from the internet, watch movies on it, listen to music stored on Sony's mini-flash format, blah blah blah. Hell, it even multitasks so that I can listen to music while checking my mail and whatnot.

Sure it's not slick and it's not a touch screen, and the software sucks (but works), but I am not the type of guy to care about fashion.

I want something that I can _hack_ with. Make it do cool stuff, write python programs for it. Hack the kernel, know how the bootloader works and even muck around with that. I certainly want the ability to at least setup a Debian chroot and run my favorate applications.

I absolutely know that it's possible. The only limitation are ones imposed on me by the makers of the phones! It takes extra effort from them to prevent me from doing what I want. It's very irritating.

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 17:12 UTC (Thu) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link] (1 responses)

Which of these things can't be achieved with ADP?

- Everybody that has one has been burning images to it without trouble.
- Many people preparing custom images (and legally redistributing it) have joyfully hacked the kernel,
- There is Python and Lua scripting support for it;
- Unlike that Sony Walkman of yours (which I assume runs Symbian), the ADP actually has a decent Java API for it.
- its SDK is remarkably well documented
- Unlike that Sony Walkman of yours, the software doesn't suck;
- chroot debian, check.
- You can also get X11 but only inside a VNC client (but I have no idea of how that performs).

I am honestly curious about how the ADP compares to a Palm Pre w.r.t. openness (still waiting for a grumpy editor review...), but in any case there are already "just works" FOSS phones.

IMHO the people that were after a hackable phone already got one. People who might... perhaps... someday... hack on a phone... keep increasing the laundry list of features that would take for them to get one.

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 13, 2009 18:19 UTC (Thu) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

Ya I know that ADP can do that. I would still like to have more of a selection. :) I want lots and lots of phones like that so I can get a nice cheap one.

Money is the biggest deal for me right now. I'm rather in debt at the moment due to other things going on.

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 14, 2009 10:52 UTC (Fri) by lbt (subscriber, #29672) [Link]

Take a look at:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer

We are working on pretty much what you describe - and it's working well:
apt-get install gcc
works - what more do you need?

However, we *do* want it slick and touchable too!

Mer is collaborating with Nokia to attempt to provide a community edition of the platform - and that includes some quite generous Nokia sponsorship.

Clearly we don't yet have access to the new devices and we don't know how open any telephony capabilities will be; but we're optimistic.

Oh, and it's not just Nokia... Mer runs on the SmartQ devices, FreeRunner and more.

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 16:57 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (10 responses)

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 17:01 UTC (Thu) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (1 responses)

...I'm working on that topic...:)

Related note: recent versions of Android won't let you turn on location based on the cell network unless you agree to let your position be reported back to the Google mothership. GPS asks no such questions; one hopes it isn't phoning home anyway...

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 21:55 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Sorry, you were scooped by the BBC. ;)

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 18:27 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (7 responses)

There's an argument in the comments of the page I linked to:

Sprint already has a log of every web server I visit with my Pre via EVDO. Sprint already has a log of my gps track whenever I use google maps or sprint nav. Sprint already has a log of every email address I get email from or to. Sprint already has a log of every phone number I get or make a call to. Sprint already has a log of every sms message I get or make. Sprint has the ability to have a log of every cell tower I ping into. Sprint has the ability to read every email I send or receive. What, exactly, is it that I'm risking in terms of my privacy that palm gets crash logs and usage time of apps again?

One answer is that that's just another issue we have to fix. If there was a campaign for Sprint to be held to high privacy standards, someone else would argue: But Palm already gets this info, so what am I risking by Sprint having it too?

It's like a boat sinking with two holes and nobody plugging either because "the water will simply come in by the other hole :-("

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 20:00 UTC (Thu) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (6 responses)

I can see legitimate uses for collecting crash data. And Sprint's ability to track you is an unavoidable side-effect of providing you with service. In both cases there are dangers and we should push for privacy protections and so forth, but at least it *might* be harmless.

But what possible legitimate reason could Palm have for needing to track the physical location of all users? I can't think of any. That they've taken affirmative action to do so seems very suspicious.

Of course, it might just be a corporate brain-fart (the fact that it was so easily discovered might argue for that), so I'd wait before pulling out the pitchforks, but...

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 21:43 UTC (Thu) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

What makes it funny is that supposeadly they have a option for disabling location services, yet even with it 'disabled' they still send information.

That is the hokey part about if, if I am correct.

As far as Sprint goes...

The only think that Sprint needs to know is data usage amount, SMS, and phone call metadata.

The rest of it, like Email and Web and any other TCP/IP based service is entirely optional. That is why we have things like Tor and SSL. Remember that the 'Internet' is P2P and it's the end nodes that have control and access over the network protocols, not the ISPs, like like it is for cellular networks. Sure Email can be catched and read at any point on the internet, but from my machine to the server (both ways) it can be encrypted. Network traffic can be piped through VPN or a 'anonymizing' service like Tor and that way Sprint will have very limited knowledge of my comings and goings if I choose to hide the details.

Of course I doubt the Pre is really open enough for me to install Tors or OpenVPN and set up the routing tables and whatnot. (I wouldn't be suprised if it was open enough, I am just assuming that it's not.

Privacy controls offered by third parties, even if you somehow get laws passed, are just not really that valuable.

What is valuable is having a open platform that you, the end user, has control. Even if you connnect to a closed network that still gives you a lot of control. When you connect to a open network, like the internet, then your level of control is going to be much higher then Sprint's...

Personally I don't give a shit if Sprint knows that I am visiting LWN or whatever. But I still need that option to be there.

And actually I don't mistrust Palm either. Not that much. I just don't think there is any profit to them from screwing me over. There is plenty of profit in monitoring and selling details about your activities and whatnot, to be sure, but besides that they are probably trustworthy.

"doveryai, no proveryai" -- words to live by. :)

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 13, 2009 22:55 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (4 responses)

If they want my crash data, they can ask me for it.

Mobile phone network providers (like what Sprint is, AFAICT) should be regulated regarding what they do with any personal info they collect during the provision of their services.

Another answer for the question of "Why should I worry about X having my data when Y already has it?" might be "Ok, can I have a copy too?"

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 14, 2009 0:54 UTC (Fri) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (2 responses)

> Mobile phone network providers (like what Sprint is, AFAICT) should be regulated regarding what they do with any personal info they collect during the provision of their services.

Good luck on that one.

If your in the USA you have to be aware that every time you do a official state or federal form that information is collected and is sold. The Post Office works with mass mail marketers to make sure they know were you are. When you get a hunting or drivers license that information is sold. etc etc.

Same thing with your phone company. Same thing with your mortgage companies. etc etc.

There is about zero chance, in my estimation, that the government will ever pass any laws protecting your privacy for anything that can't be directly used for fraud or medical records. If they do they will drill so many holes and loopholes that people still will be able to access everything. All they'll add is just red tape. There is just way to much money to be made by all sides on these sorts of issues and the government wants to be able to monitor you anyways so laws that it imposes on private enterprise will hamper it's own data collection efforts.

Everything from grocery stores to credit card companies to autopart stores.. they all collect and sell your information. Sign up for this store credit card, get this discount card, run your information through the scanner, etc etc. It's all collected, organized, and sold. And your name goes along with the data, just in case anybody cares that much to pay for it.

Unless the public gets outraged and there is enough widespread attention to get senators and whatnot to pay attention then they won't do anything about it. And you can bet that the 'Mass media' folks are going to do what they can to suppress and ignore any groundswell of opinion since their parent companies are ones that try to profit heavily from that sort of activities.

I mean look at Google. They are the ones that made the Android.. their whole purpose and goal in life is to try to figure out how to make money from the data they collect from users (and everything else). For them it's a multi-billion dollar industry and is the basic factor in every dollar they ever made.

The only one to protect your privacy is going to be you (and like minded individuals), unfortunately.

That does not mean running around and being paranoid, of course.

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 14, 2009 12:01 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (guest, #50784) [Link] (1 responses)

There is about zero chance, in my estimation, that the government will ever pass any laws protecting your privacy for anything that can't be directly used for fraud or medical records. If they do they will drill so many holes and loopholes that people still will be able to access everything. All they'll add is just red tape.

I know it's fashionable to advocate limited government in every thread on every site that I seem to be reading these days - presumably a reaction to the current US administration and the laughable "socialist" label being pinned to it, "tail on the donkey" style - but all I can say is that in the relatively "socialist" country I live in, whose centralised identity policies could justifiably be criticised, I can opt out from unsolicited communications from all commercial third parties (with few exceptions) and have the power of the law behind me. Just mentioning the fact that I have opted out to the very occasional cold-caller usually ends the conversation quickly with a flurry of apologies.

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 14, 2009 22:53 UTC (Fri) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link]

I believe drag was actually complaining that the government was, in this instance, too limited, and in the wrong direction. I'm not sure what the libertarian types would think of privacy legislation...

That said, the US does have more-or-less okay telemarketing restrictions (though not quite so nice as the ones you describe). But whether companies are allowed to annoy you at home is quite a different thing than whether they are allowed to build and swap giant databases containing every detail about your life, which is really the "privacy" question. (In the US at least doing *that* is basically totally unregulated.)

Palm Pre contains spyware that informs Palm of your location

Posted Aug 14, 2009 3:58 UTC (Fri) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link]

> If they want my crash data, they can ask me for it.

Sure, that'd be better.

My point, shorter, is: asserting control over users' information is bad, but is fixable; doing so in *bad faith* is worse, and may not be. The collection of location data specifically seems to suggest that we may be in the latter case :-(.

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 14, 2009 8:05 UTC (Fri) by dalesc (guest, #31194) [Link]

"OK, now what's my next device ? Palm Pre or Nokia "RX-51" ?"

Android, of course. Preferably with a real keyboard. Although the Hero really rocks for a simple phone.

Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device (ars Technica)

Posted Aug 24, 2009 17:41 UTC (Mon) by jimparis (guest, #38647) [Link]

I wonder how hard it would be to run Mameo on my G1?


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