There's one final comment I want to make here. [LWN.net]

There's one final comment I want to make here.

Posted Jul 29, 2009 3:42 UTC (Wed) by njs (subscriber, #40338)
In reply to: There's one final comment I want to make here. by Baylink
Parent article: OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Man, this is like a greatest hits album of privilege. I guess we should be grateful you're not dragging out the *really* crass entries on the anti-feminist bingo card? (But if that's your goal, you might find Derailing for Dummies useful as well.)

But briefly, the only place people are claiming that female programmers should receive preferential treatment is in your imagination. It's a strawman. Man up and think about what people are actually saying, even if it makes you uncomfortable. And it's really rare to find a hotshot programmer even among really smart men, too -- maybe, say, 1%. (Unless you live your life in such a way that most of the really smart men you meet are gathered together because they're hotshot programmers, but I'm sure you wouldn't make such an elementary statistical error.)

And as for your last note, about how anyone complaining about the current situation is a whining wannabe: let me be the first to say "screw you". And I say that in full sincerity as a white male who is entirely happy with the size of his *cough*geek cred.

To everyone else: Apologies for the last paragraph. Possibly I should have just ignored the parts of this discussion that piss me off the most. But then, I have that option; women don't...

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There's one final comment I want to make here.

Posted Jul 29, 2009 21:59 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (4 responses)

I believe there was a comment earlier regarding the creatures crawling out
from underneath their rocks.

Oh, look, the same damn names are back again, derailing like crazy and
claiming they're not sexist while routinely saying things that would get
them punched or ostracised or both if they said it to someone's face.

There's one final comment I want to make here.

Posted Jul 29, 2009 22:13 UTC (Wed) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (3 responses)

Oh, look. Ad hominem.

I'm bowing out now, before Jon has to ask us to quit.

There's one final comment I want to make here.

Posted Jul 29, 2009 22:42 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (2 responses)

No, it would only be an ad hominem attack if I was claiming that you were
wrong *because of who you are*.

I'm saying 'look, there are people here making the same wrong arguments.
Oh, look, they made them before.'

That isn't the same thing. The arguments would be wrong even if completely
different people were making them, but it's curious that the same small
group are still at it and appear to have learnt very little.

There's one final comment I want to make here.

Posted Jul 30, 2009 1:58 UTC (Thu) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (1 responses)

No, you're making an ad hominem reply because you are "replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Not that you're claiming I'm wrong *because* I crawled up out of <mumble>, just that you're diverting the argument from whether I'm right to my parentage.

There's one final comment I want to make here.

Posted Jul 31, 2009 1:25 UTC (Fri) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link]

He also said you were "derailing like crazy and claiming they're not sexist while routinely saying things that would get them punched or ostracised or both if they said it to someone's face." You may disagree, but you can't claim that he's not talking about your words.

But anyway, you've started this whole tangent about whether or not he's derailing, when *he wasn't even replying to your post*. I attacked your argument, he commented on my attack. You ignored my attack to go off on some irrelevant side-discussion, trying to make yourself out as a victim of a fallacy you don't even understand. Who's derailing here?