OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd [LWN.net]

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 28, 2009 14:22 UTC (Tue) by clugstj (subscriber, #4020)
Parent article: OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Strangely, I can't imagine anything more sexist that a keynote described as "encouraging women in open source". But it doesn't particularly bother me, and if some time later I were asked if I had noticed sexism, I would probably reply no.

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OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 28, 2009 16:58 UTC (Tue) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (7 responses)

Ssssh.. Stop using such logic. It's dangerous. We are not talking about reality or anything practical. Political correctness is a end in itself.

Remember, ++Thought Crimes++ are punishable by a endless barrage of annoying blog posts assinating your character.

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 28, 2009 21:57 UTC (Tue) by ariveira (guest, #57833) [Link]

I have to give the comment above a +1 (or maybe just raise my hand)

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 29, 2009 1:16 UTC (Wed) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (1 responses)

> Ssssh.. Stop using such logic. It's dangerous. We are not talking about reality or anything practical.

The reality is that women who try to participate in FOSS get harassed, and when people try to talk about that, they get dismissive comments like this one, full of cliches that contradict each other. (Are these OMG scary womyn thought police!1! or cute, annoying, ineffective girls who will try to talk you to death on their blogs?) Really the only consistent part of these arguments is the conclusion: that there's no need to think about what women are saying.

Certainly not everyone here is talking about reality, but you and I may disagree on who that is.

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 30, 2009 1:53 UTC (Thu) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link]

> The reality is that women who try to participate in FOSS get harassed,

The reality is that fallacious argument (such as the hyperbolic generalization you utilize here) does nothing positive for your argument, and loses you points amongst those perceptive enough to spot it.

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 29, 2009 20:06 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (3 responses)

Can you point at a single example of people being persecuted for thought crimes on this issue? While it'd be awesome if people didn't think of women as inferior or primarily as sex objects or as jealous whiners, realistically the aim is to discourage patterns of behaviour, not thought. We're trying to avoid people being discouraged from getting involved in the community in the first place.

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Aug 2, 2009 22:50 UTC (Sun) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (2 responses)

Yes, us.

We believe that the problem is not as general, or as clear cut, as the people we're arguing with, and when we try to break it down into its constituent parts, and come to a clear understanding, we're called "derailers", and in other ways diminished and minimalized, merely for failing to kowtow to their unproven assertions about what's really going on.

I, personally, would call that being accused of a thought crime -- especially since what I'm trying to do is give thought to the issue.

I will, of course, be shouted down here as well... who knows; maybe I'll get a death threat.

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Aug 3, 2009 20:23 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (1 responses)

Now you're making fun of people receiving death threats. You do realise
that your actions here are making you appear at *best* contemptible?

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Aug 3, 2009 20:42 UTC (Mon) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link]

It should have been perfectly clear that what I was making fun of was the idea that death threats are in any way *caused* by the behaviour of the person being threatened.

Sorry that's not clear to you.

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 29, 2009 0:55 UTC (Wed) by PaulWay (subscriber, #45600) [Link] (1 responses)

Sad. Another person who wilfully misuses the term 'sexism' to mean 'I feel threatened by any woman who wants a bit of respect'.

You're prepared to get offended but then you can't understand why other people get offended? You're truly warped.

Feminism isn't about discriminating against men. Feminism isn't about promoting women over men. It's about giving women - and everyone - the respect we all deserve. It's about trying to redress the imbalance caused by a hugely biased environment where discrimination against certain types of people is not only endemic but completely beneath notice. It's not that 80% of men never see anything that counts as sexist behaviour - it's that they see sexist behaviour and don't think it's worth mentioning because they weren't the target of the behaviour.

And no amount of saying "you must respect my version of the word 'sexism'" gains you any respect.

Have fun,

Paul

OSCON keynote: Standing out in the crowd

Posted Jul 29, 2009 2:27 UTC (Wed) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link]

Alas, Paul, just as soon as you say "redress the imbalance", you are actually saying "give women an extra break, to make up for how it's sucked to be them in the past".

You don't want to *fix* the breakage, you want to break things in the other direction. By examination.