Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine) [LWN.net]

Linux Magazine reports that the Geode geolocation feature of Firefox 3.1 will not be available to Linux users. While privacy advocates may be perfectly happy with that outcome, there may be others who would find the feature useful. It certainly seems to run counter to the whole idea of a free and open browser. "Mozilla Labs presents the following scenario: When you open the Firefox browser, it knows where you are and immediately opens websites for nearby restaurants, stores and other attractions. Mozilla developers have already integrated this feature, as the Geode plug-in, in the current beta version of Firefox 3.1. It is based on proprietary software from a company called Skyhook."

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Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 15, 2008 12:29 UTC (Wed) by patrick_g (subscriber, #44470) [Link] (3 responses)

I think Geode is only a temporary solution (as an extension in Firefox 3.0) in order to experiment with geolocation.
Firefox 3.1 will include un full solution not based on the proprietary Skyhook sofware.

Here there is an explanation : http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/mozilla-labs-geode-follow...

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 15, 2008 13:01 UTC (Wed) by __alex (guest, #38036) [Link] (2 responses)

They don't say they won't be using Skyhook in 3.1.

Presumably they either expect Skyhook to work with them on cross platform support (after all they did it for the iPhone right?) or they are just going to ignore WiFi geolocation for Linux and justify it by saying "Oh, get a GPS unit then you cheap sod."

I'm using GNU IceCAt

Posted Oct 15, 2008 14:03 UTC (Wed) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

I switchd to GNU IceCat recently and have no problems or regrets. Free software doesn't protect you from all problems, but it lets you choose a distributor you trust. Done.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 15, 2008 17:41 UTC (Wed) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link]

It seems to me like, on Linux, it should require you to have a GPS device. But your "GPS device" could be a pty generating location data from a wifi network map. And you could have a freedb-style data collection system to build and share such maps. The nice thing about Linux is that programs can use generic interfaces to devices, because the norm isn't custom drivers with vendor-specific APIs for each device, and there doesn't have to be any actual device connected. And with the wifi drivers being open-source, they can be made to provide all the needed information to other programs without any special negotiation.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 15, 2008 16:03 UTC (Wed) by skitching (guest, #36856) [Link] (4 responses)

Seems like just another totally overblown and badly-researched blog comment.

A quick read of the firefox 3.1 plans show that they intend to provide one standard javascript API to access geo info, and then have a plugin architecture to support multiple geo-info providers.

Skyhook can be one of those providers, if you are on a skyhook-supported platform and want to enable it. If someone manages to build an open-source equivalent of skyhook then that can be plugged in instead.

Of course the recommended approach is to get a source of real GPS info, and use an appropriate firefox adapter for it.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 15, 2008 17:38 UTC (Wed) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link] (3 responses)

Given the work that was done to get Skyhook in place despite it being proprietary, one would hope that someone is ensuring Geode will Just Work with a gpsd running, since it is pretty trivial to hook any kind of GPS up to gpsd in Linux.

There is also apparently an IETF spec for how a fixed network device could supply you with coarse geographic data, in the same way that DHCP users don't need to manually configure their DNS server, etc. Obviously this wouldn't be as precise as GPS, but when you're looking for a nearby restaurant, railway station or post office, you don't need precise, you just want fast and accurate. Given the 100m or so range of an Ethernet network knowing that I'm on that network is good enough. In fact, if this was provided from DSL and similar services, it would be coarser (maybe 5km radius for typical DSL) but still useful enough for a lot of services on the web - e.g. a 5km range will give most people the right local affiliate for US TV networks, the right local branch for your bank, and a good chance of showing the right delivery cost for Amazon, eBay etc. All useful stuff without a big invasion of privacy.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 15, 2008 19:41 UTC (Wed) by Velmont (guest, #46433) [Link]

Oh how I want this!

I'll go tag all the wireless routers I've control over (and maybe a few which I have'nt ;) ) with location information when it is possible.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 16, 2008 13:44 UTC (Thu) by endecotp (guest, #36428) [Link] (1 responses)

> IETF spec

RFC 1712 perhaps? It adds records like this to DNS:

IN GPOS -32.6882 116.8652 10.0

This is good for looking up "where is foo.example.com?", but I don't think it's quite as useful for asking "where am I?" when I've just been given a 192.168 address by DHCP.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 16, 2008 13:56 UTC (Thu) by endecotp (guest, #36428) [Link]

Ah, perhaps more likely rfc3825, "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol Option for Coordinate-based Location Configuration Information" (aargh, writing Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol in full means that a search for DHCP won't find it).

I feel an urge to go and add this to my DHCP server right away. Does anyone know if this is actually being used anywhere?

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 16, 2008 6:54 UTC (Thu) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link]

Privacy? Freedom? I'm not sure that such lofty terms are needed here; does anybody really want a feature that invites even more advert on to your screen? I certainly don't. It doesn't constitute useful information in any but the most strained sense of the word - the first condition for any information to be useful is that it is wanted.

Geode in Firefox 3.1: Lost in Linux (Linux Magazine)

Posted Oct 17, 2008 0:09 UTC (Fri) by roc (subscriber, #30627) [Link]

That article is amazingly paranoid, inflammatory, and just plain wrong. We've always been planning and talking about supporting multiple sources of geolocation information via an open API --- and giving the user full control.

Apparently no matter how hard you try to do the right thing, paranoid idiots will tell lies about you.