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To Sir, with Love: How To Get More Women Involved in Open Source (O'ReillyNet)

To Sir, with Love: How To Get More Women Involved in Open Source (O'ReillyNet)

Posted Sep 30, 2007 20:28 UTC (Sun) by k8to (guest, #15413)
In reply to: To Sir, with Love: How To Get More Women Involved in Open Source (O'ReillyNet) by MattPerry
Parent article: To Sir, with Love: How To Get More Women Involved in Open Source (O'ReillyNet)

It is disrespectful because the nature of scarequotes is such that this implies that Audrey is a liar. About her own sense of self-identity.

But more than that, the device is dismissive, belittling. Even if you wanted to take this sort of a very pointed (and I believe unnecessary) stand, you could do it with some modicum of decorum.


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To Sir, with Love: How To Get More Women Involved in Open Source (O'ReillyNet)

Posted Oct 1, 2007 16:59 UTC (Mon) by MattPerry (guest, #46341) [Link] (1 responses)

> It is disrespectful because the nature of scarequotes is such that this
> implies that Audrey is a liar. About her own sense of self-identity.

I think I see what's happening here. In the United States, which is where I live, there is no established social norm for how gender is indentified. Each person is left to their own methods of determination. From your post it sounds like you use a person's self-identity to evaluate the gender. If a person self-identifies as a woman then they are a woman. Am I correct that this is your viewpoint? In that sense I could see how the statement could be offensive for the reason you stated above.

From my point of view gender is defined by ones physiological and biological makeup, not ones sense of self-identity. Tang could self-identify as a woman and even go so far as to have surgery to alter her appearance and it would not change my interpretation of her gender. If I were to meet her I would address her with a feminine pronoun as she has requested in her blog[1] and would treat her as a woman. Yet if the question of her specific gender was raised I would not be able to say honestly that she is female because the criteria that I use to establish gender would say categorically that Tang's gender is male. From my viewpoint, it is a fact, not an opinion, that Audrey Tang is male. Biological science has not yet reached the point at which that fact could be changed.

In my case I didn't find the original poster's statement to be offensive because the statement made an empirical observation. It is demonstrably true given my criteria for what constitutes gender. I interpreted the poster's quotes as a means to emphasize the word 'she' because the written word lacks the auditory and visual cues that face to face communication has. I percieved the emphasis on that word to say, "I'm using this pronoun although I know it's not correct."

1. http://pugs.blogs.com/audrey/2005/12/runtime_typecas.html

To Sir, with Love: How To Get More Women Involved in Open Source (O'ReillyNet)

Posted Oct 1, 2007 18:48 UTC (Mon) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link]

As in other posts, gender means different things. Phenotype, genotype, social role, self identity, identity others perceive. All these things are gender-related. I think it is reasonable to match the identity I perceive others as with their self-perceived identity.

I believe that people who are genetically male but see themselves as somehow intrinsically female have real reasons for doing so, and so I buy into world view! The same is true for those who are genetically female but view themselves as male. It's not really very hard, of course, because these people take various measures to reduce the cognitive leap one has to make.


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