GPL modules for a differently licensed OS'

Posted Sep 6, 2007 0:09 UTC (Thu) by and (guest, #2883)
In reply to: GPL modules for a differently licensed OS' by madscientist
Parent article: Relicensing: what's legal and what's right

ok, this seems to be a kind of a PHD problem for a law stundent with a
strong computer science background *g*. I'm perfectly aware of the spirit
of the GPL (which I would think is opposed to doing such a thing), though
I'm not sure what the word says. Even if the GPL says something about
the "virtual" ram image, what is that in the first place? Does shared
memory between kernel mode code and user space code constitute an image?
How about architectures which don't sport an MMU like the ones ulinux is
targeting at? (This would have the interesting implication that it would
depend on the processor of whether it is possible to distribute a GPL user
space program with non-GPL kernels and vince-versa, but it would be OK to
ship the GPL user space code for a MMU-enabled platform and compile it
yourself for the MMU-less.) So I think it's basically impossible to
define "derived from" in any meaningful technical sense, except "if code A
can run without requiring code B then A is not a derivative". Also all
definitions are mood if someone writes some kind of minimal GPL kernel
capable of loading the unmodified GPLed modules and shipping it
as "unrelated" software on the same medium...

Also I've got some doubts whether the expressed opinions of Linus and RMS
about the GPL have any relevance legally, especially for code they don't
hold the copyright for. In any case, issues like that make me glad being a
computer scientist and not a lawyer; let's go back coding ;)

to post comments

GPL modules for a differently licensed OS'

Posted Sep 6, 2007 1:27 UTC (Thu) by madscientist (subscriber, #16861) [Link] (1 responses)

No, of course the GPL doesn't say anything about RAM, virtual or otherwise. I'm just trying to make concrete the various statements about applicability of the GPL that I've seen FSF folks make over time. As you so eloquently show, this is essentially impossible when it comes to technology--which is very likely why they have learned to never do it! Now I've learned that lesson as well :-). I think we'll just have to go with Justice Potter Stewart's definition: "I know it when I see it". Personally I think it's fairly clear what the FSF intends to be covered, and they obviously feel that the GPL enforces that intent. Since we have no judicial decisions, that's the best we can do.

Although you are certainly correct that the expressed opinions of RMS and Linus will have little effect on what a judge may eventually decide, their opinions are actually of critical importance, in this way: it's impossible for a judge to decide anything about the GPL until a case arrives in her courtroom, and it's impossible for a case to arrive until and unless someone with standing brings it. In the case of RMS the situation is extraordinarily clear: the FSF holds sole copyright to ALL GNU programs, and so it's essentially completely up to RMS to bring that case. So what he thinks about what people are doing with GNU software is the single most important factor. Linus doesn't hold sole copyright to the kernel; however it seems highly unlikely to me that a case involving Linux could go anywhere without his agreement, practically speaking.

I do agree we should get back to coding, though. Much more satisfying!

GPL modules for a differently licensed OS'

Posted Sep 22, 2007 13:57 UTC (Sat) by kreutzm (guest, #4700) [Link]

Just a minor note: The cases in Germany involving the Linux kernel were brought forward (and won) by Harald Welte (netfilter) not Linus Torvalds.

GPL modules for a differently licensed OS'

Posted Sep 13, 2007 19:20 UTC (Thu) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link] (2 responses)

You have to understand the GPL is based on the "derivative" part of copyright international laws, and these laws are not software-specific, and indeed their roots are older than computers.

Software people do not understand legal concepts and keep trying to reduce derivation to its technical implementations. (because they feel confident that once they've nailed derivation to a particular technical effect they'll be able to find another they can safely use).

The hard truth is derivative is anything that makes use of ideas/code in the protected work. So it does not matter how this use is effected. Using creative indirections does not make derivation moot. If you figure a technical way to use some protected work, the sum of protected work + your stuff is a derived work.

That is unless you can prove your stuff was designed for something else, and this something else was not heavily inspired by the protected work. Of course if that were the case you'd not be trying to squiggle past "derivation" definitions.

GPL modules for a differently licensed OS'

Posted Sep 15, 2007 14:47 UTC (Sat) by sepreece (guest, #19270) [Link] (1 responses)

"The hard truth is derivative is anything that makes use of ideas/code in the protected work."

Well, no. Copyright doesn't protect ideas, it only protects the expression of ideas. You can rephrase those ideas in other language without violating the copyright. However, the Devil is in the details and the analysis is not simple. There are scads of court decisions on specific cases, many of which seem to conflict.

Also, copyright does not control "functional aspects". There is a fair amount of precedent indicating that copyright doesn't apply when a program is simply using or interfacing with another program - that even direct copying of code may be OK when it is necessary to allow interoperation.

scott

GPL modules for a differently licensed OS'

Posted Sep 16, 2007 19:54 UTC (Sun) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

Ideas in the protected work being idea expressions.

Anyway.

You are not allowed to "rephrase" a copyrighted works idea expressions.

Copyright law allows looking at something to produce something else. Copyright law allows not looking at something to produce the same thing.

But copyright law forbids translation of something in the same something in another language/medium/format whatever. It does not take a judge a lot to decide something else is effectively something else. But mere rephrasing won't do.

Just ask J K Rowling what she thinks about your legal theory. I believe she sent a few rephrasers to jail.