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A report from OSCON 2007

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 3, 2007 14:49 UTC (Fri) by drepper (subscriber, #5153)
In reply to: A report from OSCON 2007 by jwb
Parent article: A report from OSCON 2007

The open calls only happen if you or your distribution provider (or both) make mistakes or you are using truly ancient code. On Fedora and RHEL there is exactly one single open call

open("/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive", O_RDONLY) = 3

In fact, the individual files don't even exist anymore.

So, stop complaining if you cannot even keep your machine running correctly.


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A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 3, 2007 18:33 UTC (Fri) by jwb (guest, #15467) [Link]

I can see that your reputation for being a flaming jerk is well deserved. Thanks for your practically useless reply and commercial endorsement of your employer's product.

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 9, 2007 2:25 UTC (Thu) by lysse (guest, #3190) [Link]

Maybe drepper was out of line, but I have to say that from my perspective, this response was completely out of proportion.

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 9, 2007 8:47 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Well, it is notable that Ulrich gave no information at all about how to create it (although a one line response would have given all that was needed) and that there is essentially no documentation anywhere that describes it, either.

`Flaming jerk' is over the top. `Unhelpful' or `uninformative' would be more accurate.

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 10, 2007 11:37 UTC (Fri) by liljencrantz (guest, #28458) [Link]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 3, 2007 21:30 UTC (Fri) by tetromino (subscriber, #33846) [Link]

Ulrich, that's the first time I've ever heard of /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive. None of the distributions I use (Ubuntu and Gentoo) have it. No manpage on any of my systems mentions it. Is there some documentation somewhere for what this file is, what format is it in, what it is used for, how is it written or generated, and how distros (the ones that do not have the main glibc maintainer on their staff) can use it?

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 3, 2007 23:03 UTC (Fri) by johnkarp (guest, #39285) [Link]

I fixed the issue on my gentoo box by modifying /usr/sbin/locale-gen (its
a script). One of the strings inside has "--no-archive", which I removed.

I reran locale-gen, and the archive was created. The number
of "cat /dev/null" syscalls dropped by 68%, in particular the number
of 'open' calls went from 31 -> 4.

I filed a gentoo bug:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187658

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 4, 2007 0:14 UTC (Sat) by jwb (guest, #15467) [Link]

On Ubuntu, this is the rational given for using --no-archive:

"The rationale is that with an archive it is not possible to mix system and user defined locales by setting LOCPATH."

Presumably this complaint was raised by some user who wanted to so exactly that thing. On Ubuntu, this can be changed in /etc/belocs/locale-gen.conf

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 5, 2007 16:51 UTC (Sun) by jbailey (subscriber, #16890) [Link]

Right. In Ubuntu we don't use the locales from the upstream glibc tree on the grounds that they're quite frequently wrong and (justifiably) hard to get updated. Since we already have communities of folks through Launchpad who are doing the translations for the software, we trust them to tell us the locale-specific needs that they have.

There are a few ways that we could fix this better and work on having multiple locale archives or some such, but we just haven't gotten there yet.

Ideally this could be resolved

Posted Aug 9, 2007 2:21 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (guest, #2330) [Link]

If the translations can be pushed upstream, everyone can benefit and you can use the cache.

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 9, 2007 8:34 UTC (Thu) by nhippi (subscriber, #34640) [Link]

> In Ubuntu we don't use the locales from the upstream glibc tree on the grounds that they're quite frequently wrong and (justifiably) hard to get updated. Since we already have communities of folks through Launchpad who are doing the translations for the software, we trust them to tell us the locale-specific needs that they have.

This sounds a lot like you are saying you are trading "high quality and working with upstream" with "whatever we get from users without verifying".

Or maybe let me put it the other way:

If the upstream really is "frequently wrong", despite of being "(justifiably) hard to get updated", how come this "(justification)" does not apply to updates via launchpad? What magic makes launchpad updates so much more high quality that it's worth to fork locales?

> There are a few ways that we could fix this better

Please do. Ubuntu is getting a reputation of doing quick hacks to hide the problem instead of actually fixing the issue.

re: bitten by: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/1/4/232

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 9, 2007 3:37 UTC (Thu) by jdub (subscriber, #27) [Link]

I updated an existing Ubuntu bug with information from this thread, and some strace logs of 'cat /dev/null' with and without a locale-archive.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/55906

Thanks for raising this!

A report from OSCON 2007

Posted Aug 4, 2007 13:40 UTC (Sat) by csamuel (✭ supporter ✭, #2624) [Link]

You can create the archive yourself by doing (as root):

locale-gen --archive


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