Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium [LWN.net]

From:		Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.org>
To:		Debian News Channel <debian-news@lists.debian.org>
Subject:		Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium
Date:		Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:54:46 +0100

------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Debian Project                                http://www.debian.org/
Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium                   press@debian.org
February 7th, 2003              http://www.debian.org/News/2003/20030207
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

The Debian Project is a founding member of the Desktop Linux
Consortium (DLC) which was recently founded and will be incorporated
as a non-profit association.  A recent survey on DesktopLinux.com
indicated that Debian is the most popular GNU/Linux Distribution for
the Desktop.  The Debian Desktop sub-project is an example of our
continuing efforts to improve Debian for Desktop GNU/Linux users.

The Desktop Linux Consortium is a vendor-neutral association which is
comprised of both commercial companies and open source organizations
that are developing and shaping GNU/Linux desktop technologies.  The
association will help shape the future of GNU/Linux on the desktop,
targeting the needs of corporate, institutional, and home users.

More information: <http://www.desktoplinuxconsortium.org/>

Debian desktop sub-project: <http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-desktop/>

Survey:
<http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi?view=results&id=0124200313234>


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Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 7:01 UTC (Sat) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] (5 responses)

Hey, I like Debian, run Debian on one of my machines. But Debian is not the most popular desktop distribution; the survey in question was an Internet self-selecting poll and Debian folks did a better job of stuffing the ballot box than fans of the other distros.

Please don't embarrass yourselves by bragging about such results in press releases.

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 7:44 UTC (Sat) by riddochc (guest, #43) [Link]

Well, notice the exact phrasing used.

...indicated that Debian is the most popular GNU/Linux Distribution

How many distributions call themselves GNU/Linux distributions rather than just Linux distributions? This certainly doesn't excuse the attempt to pass off a self-selected web poll as something with any legitimate value.

As a disclaimer, I use Debian for both my laptop and my desktop, and think it's a pretty decent distribution. Its severe faults are balanced by its really cool aspects.

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 12:04 UTC (Sat) by stuart (subscriber, #623) [Link] (2 responses)

Debian is used on the desktop! The fact that Debian users felt that they liked the Debian desktop and hence were bothered enough to register that fact says to me that it is a popular choice for the desktop.

Just because the poll was 'self-selecting' doesn't mean that its completely wrong. In fact as a Debian user of some years, I was quite pleasantly suprised at how many Debian users must like Debian for the desktop.

So perhaps the better question to ask, from your standpoint, is: Given that the Debian desktop is (according to some) out-of-date, klunky or just plain wrong, why do so many people like using it?

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 15:20 UTC (Sat) by rknop (guest, #66) [Link] (1 responses)

..the Debian desktop...

I exctract this because it crystalizes for me why this entire debate, on both sides, makes absolulely no sense.

What is the Debian desktop? The same question could easily be asked about a number of other distributions. Debian has all sorts of packages in it; it's probably more complete as far as free software goes than any other Linux distribution. As such, "the" Debian desktop can be whatever you want it to be. It can be Gnome based, KDE based, various versions of either, etc. And if you don't like that, it can be FVWM based, or whatever the heck else you want.

There is no such thing as "the" Linux desktop, unless you're talking about it in very general terms. The configuration of your desktop has far more to do with which software you choose to run and how you set it up than the distribution you get your software from. Even Red Hat 8, which pushes its own theme, can be custmized back to more standard setups, or to whatever else you want.

It makes more sense to ask which distributions best enable desktop users, as in ease of installation, completeness of sofware, etc., rather than what their desktop looks like or does-- because by and large, what they can do is what they all can do.

You can't say that the Debian Desktop is out-of-date, klunky, or wrong, simply because there is nothing that you can identify as "the" Debian desktop.

-Rob

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 19:17 UTC (Sat) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link]

What is the Debian desktop?

Well, they have done one or two things.

There's the Debian menu package which works across window managers, and there's those (IMO ugly) themes for GTK, Mozilla, etc. Still a lot less than Red Hat Bluecurve, but it's something.

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 19:09 UTC (Sat) by erich (guest, #7127) [Link]

Mind you, Knoppix was shipped with a few PC Magazines in Germany these days, there's Lindows, there's Xandros, there's the Debian Desktop Project...
Even my father and my mother are working on a Debian Desktop System.

The survey certainly is biased towards Debian (as the Debian Developers are a quite big and active community) but Debian IS not only for servers.
Debian has a smooth upgrade path (not losing all your settings!) from Gnome 1.x to 2.2; it has KDE 3.1 in unstable as well, Debian had had the best menu system for a long time (some Distributions even adopted it from Debian) and it certainly has one of the biggest software choice available.

Also i remember that Debian won the Distribution Award (followed by Knoppix, then Suse) by the german "Linux Magazin". That one was a jury choice.

Even if Debian is not everybodys choice (and i do understand why some prefer Mandrake, Redhat, EasyLinux and so on) it is still a good choice - and i did not want to try a different distribution yet, because i'm happy with Debian on my Desktop.

Most problems people are having with Debian can be solved easily - we're maintaining a big FAQ in german at http://channel.debian.de/faq/ that answers most questions people do ask.

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 12:42 UTC (Sat) by mepr (guest, #4819) [Link]

Come on, now, can't you all laugh at a joke?

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 8, 2003 19:07 UTC (Sat) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link]

Well, since Lindows, Xandros, Libranet, and a number of other distributions that I'm forgetting are based on Debian, it's probably true regardless of the survey.

You should also consider that Debian is the preferred distribution of Linux and Free Software developers (45% overall, nobody else comes close) and that most of those folks do run it on their desktop.

Bruce

Debian joins Desktop Linux Consortium

Posted Feb 9, 2003 2:07 UTC (Sun) by AnswerGuy (guest, #1256) [Link]

Debian is my favorite distribution. I run it on all my home systems, including my laptop.

However, the author of this blurb should be ashamed of citing that survey in such an unqualified way. It strikes me as a sensationist ruse, a tabloid ploy to get people to read more --- just so they can see the gimmick that they know is there. It puts this author's credibility on par with the people at Mindcraft!

If Corel, Storm, Libra, Progeny, Xandros, and even KNOPPIX were more successful there might be some truth to this claim. But it is obvious that, out in the real world, Mandrake, Red Hat, and S.u.S.E. have much broader user bases, especially among desktop users. It is irresponsible to promulgate statistics which are suspect. Unfortunately I think it even reflects badly on LWNs editorial judgement to quote this excerpt. I'm sure they wouldn't directly promulgate such a finding without criticism in their own writing --- but even quoting it uncritically undermines their reputation.

Back to the core of the article: I'm glad to hear that Debian is taking a more active interest in competing on the desktop. There are at least two distinct desktop markets: corporate and home. I think a thin wrapper around KNOPPIX (in improved hard disk installation user interface, with a Kickstart-like installation automation feature) would be an excellent basis for a Debian GNU/Linux desktop. KNOPPIX has garnered great respect in recent months for its incredible hardware auto-detection and configuration as well as its comprehensive collection of user applications.