Kernel developers' position on GPLv3

Posted Sep 23, 2006 0:25 UTC (Sat) by Felix_the_Mac (guest, #32242)
In reply to: Kernel developers' position on GPLv3 by ajross
Parent article: Kernel developers' position on GPLv3

"A DRM-encumbered device clearly is not "sharing" the code in any meaningful way. None at all."

From the point of view of the software developers the code is shared as normal. The device manufacturer takes the GPL code, modifies it, makes the modifications available to everybody and then incorporates it in the device.

It is only from the end users point of view that the company appears to be breaching the philosophy of the GPL since although the user has the source code and can use it in various ways (i.e. build their own device etc.etc.) they cannot reload it into the Tivo (or other hardware) and get it to run.

The GPL3 I believe therefore introduces the concepts of limits on the use of the software which were not present before. In doing this does it not become incompatible with version 2 thereby causing the fragmentation and great difficulties for distributions that the authors of this paper mention?

Personally I would be very happy if the GPL v3 was finalised and adopted by 98% of current GPL 2 projects. But if that is not going to happen and the new license causes the difficulties that the authors mention then it is not worth the cost.

In the circumstances I do think that a GPL3 which contained some clarifications and wording adjustments for the sake of internationalising the license would be worthwhile. BUT only if it was fully compatible with GPL 2 and therefore (a) it wouldn't matter if a particular project didn't move to GPL3 and (2) there would be no reason for any project not to move to GPL 2.

to post comments

What part of the draft is that?

Posted Sep 23, 2006 2:44 UTC (Sat) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (5 responses)

The goal of the GPL is to ensure that when someone gets the software, they are free to help themselves and to cooperate with others. When someone gets a Tivo, they might want to remove the spyware or add a "copy" button. Unfortunately, to the user of a Tivo, the source is viewable, but cannot be modified to make the computer (the Tivo) do what they want.

More importantly, could you say what part of the draft introduces use limits?

All it says is that Tivo is free to modify the software to suit their needs, and I'm free to modify the software to suit my needs after I get it from them.

What part of the draft is that?

Posted Sep 23, 2006 8:45 UTC (Sat) by Felix_the_Mac (guest, #32242) [Link] (4 responses)

"More importantly, could you say what part of the draft introduces use limits?"

Quite simply the use limits are "you may not use this software in a device which will not allow modified software to be run".

It's similar to other use limits that are sometimes discussed, and rejected, such as "you may not use this software in a nuclear warhead".

GPLv3 doesn't say that

Posted Sep 23, 2006 12:24 UTC (Sat) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (3 responses)

Hmm, as I thought. You are complaining about something you think is in GPLv3, but which is not in GPLv3. Maybe people have these misconceptions because the media has oversimplified the issue.

GPLv3 allows people to implement DRM. I can configure my kernel to only run binaries signed by me, and then sign all the binaries on my system, and then I will be well protected against viruses. This is allowed by GPLv3 (and v2).

What GPLv3 forbids is that _you_ distribute the software in a way that _you_ have the ability to modify the software but _I_ don't. When you distribute (not use) the software, you are obliged to do so in a way that passes on the freedom for the recipient to adapt the software to do what they want.

So there is no use restriction. I think RMS explained this well in his February talk at FOSDEM, and recently in Bangalore, he explained it and Eben Moglen explained it.

It's important that people read the draft and then attach comments to the actual text (by going to gplv3.fsf.org) instead of debating things that don't exist.

GPLv3 doesn't say that

Posted Sep 23, 2006 12:55 UTC (Sat) by Felix_the_Mac (guest, #32242) [Link] (2 responses)

I said:"you may not use this software in a device which will not allow modified software to be run".

You said:"there is no use restriction."

Stallman said:"The basic change is that if someone, say the manufacturer of the Tivo, provides you a binary, then he must, as part of the requirement to provide the source code, give you whatever it takes to authorise your version so it will run."

Therefore the use restriction is that the manufacturer cannot use the GPL code in a device for which they are not willing to give you the signing key.

I support this position in principle, however if the practical effects are as suggested by the kernel developers in their letter, I do not believe that the risk to the GPL system is warranted.

GPLv3 doesn't say that

Posted Sep 23, 2006 13:18 UTC (Sat) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

The condition/requirement/restriction is on distribution, not use. Any recipient of the software, including a device manufacturer, can use (as in, run, execute) the software without restriction. When they distribute (give a copy to someone else), they have requirements.

v2 said that requirements were to make the source code available, and to make the recipient aware of the licence. v3 adds to this list that there is also a requirement to make sure that if there are technical measures which might prohibit modification, then the recipient must have what is necessary to avoid being restricted by that.

This is why I say there is no use requirements. If you define "use" in a really broad way that includes distribution, then there are some relevent restrictions in v3, but this is also true of v2.

GPLv3 doesn't say that

Posted Sep 27, 2006 13:52 UTC (Wed) by bignose (subscriber, #40) [Link]

> the use restriction is that the manufacturer cannot use the GPL code in a
> device for which they are not willing to give you the signing key.

They can *use* the software in that device, unconditionally. They may also (under the terms of the current GPLv3 draft) *redistribute* that software to you, with the condition that they grant you all the freedoms to the software they received.

Once you receive that software under the terms of the GPLv3, you too are free to use the software in that device unconditionally, just as the party you received it from was free to do so.

No-one's use of the software is restricted by any conditions in the (current draft of the) GPLv3.