X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules [LWN.net]

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 14, 2006 22:20 UTC (Mon) by grouch (guest, #27289)
Parent article: X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

When will these distributors provide proper names for the distributions, such as nVidia's Fedora Core and ATI's Gentoo? This would at least alert users as to who controls the distributions. Users shouldn't be left with the mistaken impression that these distributions are independent of those video card makers.

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OK if it's in FC6

Posted Aug 14, 2006 22:48 UTC (Mon) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link] (1 responses)

I think it could be argued that a major change to the X version shouldn't happen without a distro upgrade in any case, and FC6 will be out soon. Choosing not to upgrade X in FC5 is reasonable even in the absence of the proprietary-graphics issue.

That will give the proprietary module people a bit more time to get their act together and port their modules.

As long as the Fedora folks proceed with getting the new Xorg into FC6 I think it's OK.

OK if it's in FC6

Posted Aug 14, 2006 23:16 UTC (Mon) by spot (guest, #15640) [Link]

Indeed, Xorg 7.1 is in development and on track for FC-6.

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 14, 2006 23:02 UTC (Mon) by tetromino (guest, #33846) [Link]

I suppose I can understand why nvidia hasn't updated their drivers. They are about to release a new generation of hardware (geforce 8) and probably want to put all their driver updates, both for new video cards and for xorg 7.1, into a single release. But it sucks for the users when a nvidia's timetable and the free desktop development timetable are so out of sync...

Right now, nvidia's proprietary driver is essentially the only choice for the (very significant number of) people who use an nvidia card with linux. The free nv driver is broken and useless. Hopefully the nouveau project will produce a working driver soon, so that desktop distros wouldn't be so dependent on a proprietary driver.

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 14, 2006 23:03 UTC (Mon) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (3 responses)

That's the trouble.

It's not the distros are the ones being controlled. It's that the distros are desigined to be used by end users and the end users are the ones being controlled by propriatory stuff.

What maybe distros should do is to provide certification and recommended hardware for their system.

Linux is at the point now were people WANT to run Linux and they will modify their purchasing decisions based on Linux compatability. But most people aren't going to understand binary vs open source drivers and don't know which hardware vendor does this or does that.

Or to put it another way.. Even though Distros are mainly Free software this Free software is more valuable to people then the computer it runs on.

But people have limited resources and money and therefore if their computer can't run a distro then they simply won't be able to run that distro.

So what people like FC and Ubuntu should do is have recommended hardware and certified hardware system.

If I am fairly clueless user and want to run FC I would like to be able to go to FC and find out:
what proccessor I should buy
what wifi card I should buy (this is a BIG one)
what printer I should buy
what scanner should I buy
what motherboard and/or chipset should I buy
what video card should I buy
and maybe were I should buy it from.

This would make my purchasing decisions easier.

This is different from a 'compatability' list.. this is recommended hardware list. This is the 'ideal' hardware for best compatability and best support with your distro of choice.

A couple of examples are:
the KRP, which is favored hardware for building a HDTV Linux PVR. Using this certification system I should be able to go out and buy a computer, plug Knoppmyth into it and have a working HD-ready PVR in under 20 minutes. Full installation end-to-end.
http://www.mysettopbox.tv/KRP.html

Gamix is designed to create a standardized platform you could build or buy for playing games. The idea is that game developers could build gaming DVDs for this platform and it should work universally well on any other PC somebody builds with certified componates. The game developer has full control with the entire software stack. Obviously targetted for Linux support, but not nessicarially.
http://www.gamix.com/

Try to use the cheapness, flexibility, and performance of PC commodity hardware without the hassle of the end user dealing with driver issues or Windows.

This is different from 'compatability lists' because recommended hardware lists are much more focused, much more attainable.

With Windows you have the 'recommends windows xp' stuff along with their windows driver criteria stuff. With OS X you have Apple controlling the hardware completely and thus everything 'just works'. Linux can 'just work' for people also, but you need to have good hardware support.

If the recommended hardware for Ubuntu or FC or whatever works out then you can start to define a open common hardware criteria system. Much like how the LSB is for software compatability you can determine a LHB for a Linux hardware compatability.

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 14, 2006 23:18 UTC (Mon) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (1 responses)

Oh and a couple others that I just remembed..

Redhat's HCL list
https://hardware.redhat.com/hwcert/index.cgi

D. J. Berstein's 20060107 Unix workstation hardware and build guide
http://cr.yp.to/hardware/build-20060107.html

Linuxprinting.com suggested printers
http://www.linuxprinting.org/suggested.html

Arstechnica June 2006 hardware buyers guide (windows oriented)
http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/system-guide-200606.ars

So on and so forth.

Most people just want stuff they don't have to mess with. A guide or recommended/suggested hardware can do this for them.

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 17, 2006 20:18 UTC (Thu) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

Too bad djb went with nvidia.

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 15, 2006 2:34 UTC (Tue) by dberkholz (guest, #23346) [Link]

> It's not the distros are the ones being controlled. It's that the distros
> are desigined to be used by end users and the end users are the ones being
> controlled by propriatory stuff.

Exactly. Distributions exist to make the end user's task of maintaining a full system easier. That's a core part of the Gentoo philosophy, at least, and it doesn't allow us to take stances like "We're breaking everyone who uses binary drivers."

X.org, distributors, and proprietary modules

Posted Aug 14, 2006 23:26 UTC (Mon) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> nVidia's Fedora Core

Come on, it's far from that. Actually, if you wish, you can run X11 7.1 with AIGLX enabled on FC5 now, without compiling anything:

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/projects/aiglx/
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/AiglxOnFedora

And, all this will be available by default in FC6, which is probably going to be released mid-October:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Core/Schedule